Rear Suspension Spring Clip

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Tinkley
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Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:33 pm

I've done two cars rear arm bearings (ie both sides) without any real problem, until now. The rear strut retaing clip to arm has broken off, leaving a short approx 7mm stub of wire showing. I've tried to punch it through from the other end but no joy, it won't shift. I'm assuming it is possible to drill this out in situ with a right angle drill head? Has anyone done this? I can grip the stub with pliers but only wish to pull dead square as I know what will happen if I twist... :wink:

Or is there an easier way, without dropping the sub frame, which I can't do at home, except by some of the bolt length.

As this car is a right B****** to do anything on, nothing would surprise me. As it is both brake pipes need replacing because the screw into the calipers are rounded, so still to fight with them... just reluctant to be completely immobile so I've left them connected. I do have new ones ready to go.
It's also tricky to use heat on the pin as the gaiter is so close. I'll leave some penetrating stuff on it overnight and try again tomorrow.
Meantime, I know some of you have had this issue, any tips appreciated. The creaking from the arm bearings is so bad on every bump, I just have to do it especially with the MOT in Dec. Funny how the Auto ws a doddle...even though same age.

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by rutter123 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:21 pm

Can you weld something onto the stub? Maybe a washer or something then you may get some leverage to pull the bit out.
Ive done many rear arms mostly without probs but there is always one thats a complete b#####d, like my old tgd which one of the long bolts would not budge, ended up using a kango hammer to knock it out and replacing both brake pipes and rear calipers, seized fittings and broken bleed nipples, on a cold january night outside under torchlight.
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Kaapelimies » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:15 pm

I think you mean the "piston rod" I'm not sure how you call it in english, retaining pin. You can't drill it because it's very hard stuff. This is why also welding won't probably work. You need a new piston rod (and a new locking pin respectively), the old one breaks off quite easily by hitting it with a hammer and a punch (/wedge) to where the piston rod enters the suspension arm. After that the pin is quite easy to remove.

And for the future, the pin comes off with a 80% chance if you make it swim in WD40 or similar, and hit quite har a few times the end of the piston rod in where it enters the suspension arm, and after that use locking pliers to grab the pin and hit the pliers to remove the pin. You may also use heat (after removing the rubber, of course) to help the pin come off.
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Tinkley
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:47 am

Thanks for the information. Not sure cutting the cylinder strut end would be on, there may be no replacement available. Of course it may be the only way in the end!.
I've got the main bolt out - the very easy bit and still covered in grease. The anti roll bar bolts were tight but the 6 point socket got them out, where the 12 point one just slipped on them. I'll perservere with penetrating oil, oxalic acid etc etc to try and persuade the pin stub out. Yes you are right Kappelimies, it is the retaining pin, but we often call them P or R Clips because of their shape, hope that makes sense.

I don't have a welder but could silver solder something on, but it is such a small bit of wire, around 2 - 2.5mm to get a grip on. Can still get reasonable force with pliers/mole grips on, but convinced any twist will shear it flush. If and when it does move a bit, I'd guess it can be worked out slowly. Might Dremel through with a grinding burr....

We will see what can be done today.

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by ken newbold » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:23 pm

Typical rear end BX, suffering from lack of maintenance, these clips come out really easy if fitted with copper ease and removed just once a year prior to MOT inspection, only takes a minute but saves hours of grief, as you've found out.

My solution was to hit the "ball socket" with a big hammer and chisel, as said above. The ball socket is only cast steel and breaks easily, the pin can then be removed without too much hastle. Just need to fit a "new" push rod/ball socket.

I'll have a look in garage tomorrow, there may be one kicking about but surely someone on here must have some spares.
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:16 am

Thanks Ken, that's very helpful. I still hope to get the swine out intact if possible. Unfortunately the smallest induction coil heaters are a bit big for the small pin, but I'm going to try indirect heat by warming some 'tongs' to transfer heat to the pin.... :wink: might try freezing it with CO2 as well.
I can afford to let penetrating oil work for at least a week with a few tweaks etc to help it along. Despite the creaking, it won't collapse - yet!.
But I also know the other side will be done too, however that pin looks as if it should come off, much less corossion and I will prime it at the same time.
The replacement pin and socket will be sufficiently greased to prevent this scenario again. Pity the previous person who must have done these arms before did not take that simple preventative measure. TBH I never thought to look having had no problem before doing this job.

I might try the Wurth products Rost Off and/or Rost Off Ice, as these have been recommended. Anyone had any joy with these?

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:30 pm

I really need to get this pin out. I've tried heating mole wrench to indirect heat and freeze spray and only suceeded in moving it a few hundreths of a mm before it eventually snapped off. Ken, you mentioned, on a previous post that it is possible to remove the arm complete with piston rod attached, how is this best done? I have to replace the brake pipe so that will be clipped free, AR bolts already removed, and the main 16mm pin is free.

How does the piston rod reassemble? Obviously I hope to drill/Dremel out the old pin - I have enough small burrs and loosen the 'cup' out intact. Presumably the rod just slides back in past the oil seals? so keep aligned clean and true with fresh LHM on it? then eventually reseat in the repaired arm.

I could not find a good exploded of this particular assembly. I would be grateful for any advice, I need to get this beast MOT'd asap as it's my daily and I have some work to do. The rest of the problems are minor in nature but this o/s arm is being a right brute, already spent something like 20 hours trying to get that pin out.... :wink:

BTW there is a new pin and socket available on t'bay at 50 quid...

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by ken newbold » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:29 pm

I don't think you'll be able to remove the complete arm with the push rod in place unless you can get it to disengage out of it's socket. I used to hit the socket with a hammer and chisel, socket smashes and out she comes, however replacements were not £50 then. Is there not enough access to drill the pin out?
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ken newbold
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by ken newbold » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:33 pm

Just had a look at that one on ebay, I know it's best offer and freepost, but the guy must be on drugs, hope you're reading this you money grabbing stupid b@5t@rd
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:17 am

There was a rod and cup (NOS) on t'bay from a genuine dealer for 20 quid a while back...I spoke to the guys on the phone and they said persevere with the pin...
No you don't get true straight access to the pin until it is dropped about 10-12mm. Then you have issues with the drill chuck diameter. I will try and separate the rod from the socket/cup as this may be possible. According to the late Citronut (RIP) on a Xantia forum, where this issue has raised it's head. I'm sure it will be fun manoevering the 'light weight arm' around and holding it in the right position to achieve this. If it comes out I can get it to a drill press, to deal with the pin. I'm trying to keep it intact as there is no guarantee of a replacement. I believe the Xantia has the same part (cup), just the rod length is different.

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ken newbold
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by ken newbold » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:25 am

I think you're right about the Xantia cup being the same. Aren't there any of those in the yards now either :-? If you have the cup, it's a 10 min job
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by CitroenBaz » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:11 pm

hi, get a pair of mole grips & clamp them round the outside of the cup & twist back & forth until the pin brakes when this has happend you should be able to knock the broken pin out of the arm, then you can either change the rod or try & knock the pin out with some heat

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:20 pm

Going to take a lot of twist and a few 10s of thousands of goes to break 3mm of drawn wire rod...... :wink: the cup will be destroyed first being a softer casting...
It sounds like you can actually get the piston rod out of the cylinder as per this thread so the arm comes out with it all attached. Then you can get to the pin!

http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic ... 5c#p246524

So I think I'll try that, not sure how to realign/attach the far end of the rod though, does it just 'fit' in the piston into a socket?

Bet the other side will be as bad.... :wink:

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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by ken newbold » Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:59 pm

YUP, there is a socket for the push rod to drop into, easi peasi, that bit
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Re: Rear Suspension Spring Clip

Post by Tinkley » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:00 am

Thanks Ken. The only drawings do not make that bit clear, and as she is depressurised and I have to cut the brake pipe it will be a one way trip...
The actual rod seems fine, no corossion, light LHM on it, even the gaiter is fair.