GTi main bearing swap

BX Tech talk
User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

I am having trouble changing the above. Of the five bearings I have replaced four of them easily as the bearing caps are secured using bolts which makes it simple to remove the caps by rocking them sideways and pulling down. But the centre cap is retained by studs and I just cannot get the cap to come loose.
I am able to rock it sideways as far as the studs allow but no amount of hammering and levering will persuade it to come down and out even with a tiny wedge inserted into the gap which opens up when the cap is forced to one side as far as the studs allow.
I am doing this with the engine in the car.

Anyone done this ? Or any helpful thoughts welcome as I am going to have to leave this one bearing unchanged.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 54

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Kitch »

That's a weird one, I've never had that happen before. Could the studs be bent slightly?
The national BX register - click to submit a car!

1983 16TRS (Sunrise red) - 1987 DTR Turbo est (Venetian red) - 1989 16 Valve (Venetian red) - 1990 16 Valve (Venetian red)

rutter123
Over 2k
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:54 pm
Location: South Lincs
My Cars: 65 Peugeot Boxer van 160k
Ven red tzd turbo 294k it will live again
Nissan Micra K13 the wife's run around
x 58

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by rutter123 »

Can the studs be removed by maybe locking two nuts together on the exposed threads? Not sure how much thread is there.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability

Kaapelimies
BXpert
BXpert
Posts: 213
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:01 am
Location: Hollola, Finland
x 8

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Kaapelimies »

And you have removed the two through-bolts from both sides of the engine (from the outside)? Hammer is a very very wrong tool for this place..
BX 4x4 estate, several BX Van's and some more normal estates in Finland.

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 54

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Kitch »

Kaapelimies wrote:And you have removed the two through-bolts from both sides of the engine (from the outside)? Hammer is a very very wrong tool for this place..
Ooh, the cross bolts! Forgot about those. This is the first thing to check!!
The national BX register - click to submit a car!

1983 16TRS (Sunrise red) - 1987 DTR Turbo est (Venetian red) - 1989 16 Valve (Venetian red) - 1990 16 Valve (Venetian red)

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

Through bolts ? What are they ? I must have a look for them but the bearing cap will move from side to side. Does a wet liner block have these ?

I am going to check next for the through bolts as well as what I assume are studs might be in fact bolts which I will be able to move upwards out of the way. Seems unlikely though.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

Tinkley
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 am
Location: N Hants England
x 6

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Tinkley »

It shows them in the Haynes, if you have a 159 based engine which I believe the GTi is. There's even a photo of a spanner loosening them, definitely mentioned and linked to text. Hope that may help, good luck with it.

User avatar
Kitch
Over 2k
Posts: 6220
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Fareham, Hants
x 54

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Kitch »

Just above the line of the sump pan John, probably a 13-15mm bolt head sticking out the side of the block. One on one side, one on the other. The centre caps on an XU9 (good chance XUD is the same) are cross bolted as well as vertically bolted for extra strength. I bet that's the issue.

On really tough engines, all the mains caps are cross bolted!
The national BX register - click to submit a car!

1983 16TRS (Sunrise red) - 1987 DTR Turbo est (Venetian red) - 1989 16 Valve (Venetian red) - 1990 16 Valve (Venetian red)

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

Thanks all, I will check them out.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

Yaaay
I am getting there. Found the bolts and removed the rear one easily. The front one is deeply recessed and hidden behind the main hydraulic feed from the pump, worse I don't have a socket thin enough to get down to it so its off to the tool shop tomorrow for a thin wall deep socket.

Thanks for the info everyone. Haynes would have helped me for once but as I did the same job on my TD last year and did not have to struggle with side bolts as it doesn't have them I just gave up the struggle and left it for 6 months before returning to it last week.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

Work continues, sump is on as is the head and cambelt with new tensioner. I am renewing the orings on the camshaft lube bar.
I bought a set of 16v orings as they are the same size according to Citroen: 5,1 which I take to be 5mm id and 1mm section width. Trouble is these new rings seem to be a bit oversize and will not push down into the camshaft caps.
Anyone had similar trouble ? I am reluctant to use more force to get them in for fear of breaking the plastic unions.

Where can I buy suitable 5,1 orings, I don't think normal nitrile rings are good enough for hot engine oil.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

Tinkley
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 am
Location: N Hants England
x 6

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Tinkley »

I'd be tempted to use a 'Viton' material - a Fluoroelastomer. Think it's a DuPont material and AFAIK it is pretty widely available.
You could do worse than check the range from James Walker, who used to and maybe still have a factory in Woking. I don't see why Peugeot would use anything other than a stock metric size unless it is a really different shaped seal - therefore fully custom.

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

Tinkley wrote:I'd be tempted to use a 'Viton' material - a Fluoroelastomer. Think it's a DuPont material and AFAIK it is pretty widely available.
You could do worse than check the range from James Walker, who used to and maybe still have a factory in Woking. I don't see why Peugeot would use anything other than a stock metric size unless it is a really different shaped seal - therefore fully custom.
I have measured the orings I have, they are 5.5mm x 1.3 and they just don't want to go in. I have ordered some Viton 5mm in 1mm and 1.5 cross section to see which is the best fit.
James Walker still exist in Woking ! I used their site to check on the suitability of nitrile versus FKM (viton).

So its on to the next challenge now. Some of the valve tappet gaps are just over the limit, I am tempted to leave them that way. Its a race against time as the everyday TD has a badly slipping clutch and it is going to have to struggle on in use until I get the GTi finished, MOTed and on the road. But will the clutch last that long........watch this space.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

Tinkley
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 am
Location: N Hants England
x 6

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Tinkley »

Good luck with it. I just changed the distributor main O ring and the thermostat seal (to get new housing to bed) and getting the old ones off illustrated just how heat/cycle hardened these parts become. In this case 11 years since full recon engine unit. I'm not sure measuring these old parts would be much use as they were quite a long way from the new parts, from squashing and maybe a bit of swelling. If you can find the parts list stuff for the engine it should give the original O ring sizes in the margin, along with Peugeot/Citroen part No.

Just carefully knifed them off, but the rubber was more like rigid thermoplastic than retaining any flexibility. BTW the Peugeot price from dealer was not bad about a quid for the distributor O ring and just over 2 for the thermostat seal. At least you know they are the correct grade material and others are selling them at highly inflated prices on t'bay...... :wink:

User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
1K Away
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
x 21

Re: GTi main bearing swap

Post by Jaba »

An update on those viton o-rings : both the 5x1mm and 5x1.5mm fitted well but neither were meaty enough to actually fill and seal the gap but I found that fitting them both did the job and I now have a spray bar that fits without leaking oil.

I was then able to get the engine back together and fire it up. I found that the water pump, 3 years old and 15k miles of use was noisy so I got a replacement from GSF and now have a very sweetly running engine.

It is now MOTed and ready to be used on December 1st when I can retire the TD Hurricane and change the clutch and fix its oil leak which has wrecked the newish clutch.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.