Cluth Problem

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kiwi
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Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:48 am

Encountered a clutch problem! Its be going on a few months now but it hit the head tonight. Difficulty in engaging gear in fact tonight it suddenly became impossible unless the engine is switched off. Pretty much as soon as you push the car into gear its engaging gear. The clutch adustment rod is at its maximum. Nothing left to adjust.

Its a weird one because I had the clutch replaced when I first got the car because of the notchy gear engaging. Done about 45,000 miles on this clutch in the diesel!
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Tinkley » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:35 am

Sounds like the problem I had a couple of years ago. Started as stiff selection then eventually I had to start it in gear!. I actually swapped engines and put a new clutch and release bearing in, as the one in the recon had done 62k but was OK when taken out. I haven't split the box off the older engine (156k) but reckon the release bearing has gone, there was some squealing prior to near total failure. TBH if your going to change the bearing, it's worth doing the clutch unless it is very low miles. Also possible someone who did the clutch before did not do the bearing.... :wink: so maybe just do that. Either way the box has to come off.

Mostly I'd expect 100k miles+ from a clutch on a BX, they are not usually too bad but there are some cheap ones which may not be quite as good. Though memmbers of this Forum have had even decent ones fail somewhat prematurely for no obvious reason.

Check which type of release bearing you have though, there are two types depending on the clutch lever actuation design. I have the ball and socket type, the other is a lever from a cross rail and a twist on bearing which has two 'ears'. The kit I got had the wrong bearing so I had to get that separately. The Haynes is NOT necessarily right on which engine/gearbox type has which so you need to check which one you have. It is also possible that the nylon bush pieces of the cross rail type have deteriorated and developed massive play. They are available, and are known to wear out.
FWIW it seems the consensus on clutches is either Valeo or Luk. The Valeo kit gives you a centreing tool which makes it a piece of p*** to get it aligned. Remember to use the correct gearbox oil - the Total one specifically, when refilling the box.

Defender110
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Defender110 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:53 am

A common problem that it might be is the clutch cable 90 degree pivot arm and bolt on top of the gearbox which seizes up and prevents correct clutch travel. Very easy to check just undo the centre bolt which holds the pivot arm to the top of the gearbox and give it a good cleaning and lubing.
Kevan
1987 Citroen BX MK1 diesel estate.(Currently in dry storage)
1997 Mercedes C230 W202 - daily driver.
2010 BMW X1 SE 2.0D Auto - Her indoors daily driver.
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC

kiwi
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:11 am

One thing I have learned about cars in general is dont go looking at the obvious or assuming the best or the worst. I will look at what Defender has suggested, Sounds plausible as I noted the rod and pin are not lined up perfectly. Also the adjuster was at its maximum extent. Some reason I can recall changing the adjuster arm before just cant remember which car.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Tinkley » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:25 am

It is also possible that the 'pin' that the adjuster rod works onto has been replaced with an inferior piece of steel and it has worn out. See if you can measure the length, somewhere in this Forum is the data on the correct length of the 'pin'. Of the top of my head I have a figure of about 37-38mm but I might be way out. It was apparently common for people to lose these 'pins' on the road leading to no clutch action.... :wink:

rutter123
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by rutter123 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:48 pm

Check the clutch actuating arm does not have a fracture, it happened on my tgd. Same symptoms.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability

kiwi
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:33 am

Annoying I cant show you a photo on here what I can see! So I posted it of facebook.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

kiwi
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:38 am

1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

kiwi
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:38 am

Image
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

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ken newbold
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by ken newbold » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:38 am

As said above, disconect the cable and check the boomerang shaped arm is free to move, check it's not cracked, failing that I suspect your release bearing has is siezing up under load and burning/burnt it's way through the fingers of the clutch pressure plate.
I've also known the fork lever that comes out of the gearbox break or crack and also the old issue we used to have with the bracket on the back of the clutch pedal bending.
They think it's all over, it is now!

rutter123
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by rutter123 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:31 pm

Could it be the clutch arm pivot bushes breaking up? It could be the clutch itself, do you know which clutch kit was fitted? As i had a cheapo kit in my old tgd and it had to be changed again after only 35k as it was falling apart, i thougjt the thrust bearing was whining but it was actually loose rivets in the linings. Lesson learnt.
90 BX Tzd turbo 294k SORN undergoing major surgery
90 BX Tzd turbo estate 46k awaiting surgery
65 Peugeot Boxer Van the new workhorse
52 Toyota Rav4 180k Bulletproof Jap reliability

Defender110
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Defender110 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:00 pm

The clutch pedal box where the pedal mounts inside the car are also prone to cracking so the pedal bends inwards as the bracket bends without moving the cable peoperly. You need o check the bracket where the pedal attaches.
Kevan
1987 Citroen BX MK1 diesel estate.(Currently in dry storage)
1997 Mercedes C230 W202 - daily driver.
2010 BMW X1 SE 2.0D Auto - Her indoors daily driver.
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC

Defender110
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My Cars: Citroen BX MK1 Break.
Land Rover Discovery Series 1 200tdi 3 door
Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5
BMW X1
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Defender110 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:03 pm

Kevan
1987 Citroen BX MK1 diesel estate.(Currently in dry storage)
1997 Mercedes C230 W202 - daily driver.
2010 BMW X1 SE 2.0D Auto - Her indoors daily driver.
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC

kiwi
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by kiwi » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:54 pm

It is not the pedal box...after a couple hours contortion I found that out for certain.

I had a fiddle around with the clutch fork and peered in the hole at the top this seemes to be a bit loose. The interesting thing was after I moved it around a bit I finally got gear engagement.......unfortunatly this was short lived and now the clutch pedal is flat to the floor. The cables fine btw. What ever the problem is it is in the clutch housing for certain. So that trip to the mechs and expensive bill is a certain bet.

As for the type of clutch fitted I am thinking it was el cheapo aussie made factor part.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91

Tinkley
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Re: Cluth Problem

Post by Tinkley » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:47 pm

Sorry to hear the news. However it may just be the release bearing, hard to say without getting it apart and of course once apart better to do all of it. If you have an engine hoist or access to one they are not too difficult to do yourself. It's almost as easy to remove the lump as to just drop the box, I've only done the former. Others say that aligning the gearbox shaft is pretty tricky if the engine is still in situ. Without a ramp or a pit I'd think it would be quite hard.

Could you ascertain which type of release bearing you have?