Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

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Tinkley
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Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:53 pm

I have the drivers door which will not open when the locking is released. I'm not sure IF I can get the door card out to release the catch as access is a bit more limited by virtue of working from inside....and I think I need to get on the end to release the screws. Don't really want to break the door off... or put a grinder through it...

Is this possible? or do I have to try some other tricks to get the catch to rise over. I'v had two BX door catches break the internal pin before but the problem was not that the door was shut, you had to have a rope to hold it closed, until catch replaced. Not sure if this part is still available and almost certain you can't repair the friction welded pin (which beaks off inside), so any spare o/s front door catch would be welcome. I think this car has been broken into before as there is passenger side damage around the door that side however the catch there works OK. It's not too bad to change if you have the door open and access... :wink:

Do any other Citroen/Pug models use the same door catch? like 305/309/405?

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Way2go
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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Way2go » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:52 pm

Is it the lock or the latch or a foreign body in the door opening? :?

Is the button pulled fully up, does the interior handle only move a short distance - if so, then the door is still locked despite this. Could be a disconnected linkage, I presume you have tried the key (a linkage too?) as well as the c/l? Remedy here would be to pull the linkages inside the door card.

If the interior handle moves as it should when unlocked, then it is a latch problem, either linkage or foreign body interfering with operation. Start by operating mechanism by hand inside door. If no go then mechanism may need to be destroyed inside door to get "freewheeling" operation in door shut - hopefully it can be cured before the latter. #-o
1991 BX19GTi Auto

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:25 pm

Thanks for the reply W2g, the mechanism is the fault. The key opens the lock(ing) the locking plunger knob comes up, the other doors open and you can work the locking plunger from the door (drivers) on or off. It won't open using inner or outer handle or both at the same time. Yes, the mechanism needs to be extracted, which is easy with the door open, the problem I have is the door is latched shut so can I remove the door card without destroying it? better than angle grinding the outer skin....and the mechanism mount screws are from the door edge...though I don't mind cutting into the mechanism itself.
Don't mind removing the seat etc for access. 'kin pain, I changed the (whole) speedo from a broken single to the proper two cables and some dud panel bulbs and was trying to sort the non working windscreen washer - most likely switch, I'd swapped the pump. Was going to MOT tomorrow but that's on hold.....
I pretty sure it is the pin inside the mechanism that breaks, about 8mm diameter welded one end only. If this gets 'loose' the latching becomes 'iffy' and it was when I bought the car. Did not expect it to break so soon, or in the shut position, they can soldier on for some time like that.

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tim Leech » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:59 pm

It's probably just jammed, better to pull the door card off from the inside than attaching the door, remove the door handle etc and if you can the drivers seat to give you some movement space
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
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1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:22 pm

It's more than jammed Tim, I'm afraid, I really suspect that wretched pin inside. I'll get the card off, having given it a bit more thought, I think I can access all the main screws ie handle and behind speakers etc, then pop the lower studs. I should be able to fiddle the catch over from poking a screwdriver inside the mechanism, not sure the MOT guys would like to do that...... :wink:
Not sure why these sods break, as I say this is the third one, any scrappers or broken/dented drivers doors?. I can buy a complete door for 30 euro with all the bits from France but the postage will be stupid.
If anyone has successfully repaired one, I'd love to know how, it looks like any welding will melt the rest of the plastic internals btw.

Funny how I've had as many of these mechanisms break as speedo cables, over about 280k and I'm not one to swing on the door.... :wink:
Maybe Chevronics should look into these parts, I can't be the only one. Part No is 95573651 I think. Even a global 'bay search does not come up with one, only one sold last month!.

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:20 pm

Some minor success in that, seat removed, the rear of the card can be bent back allowing access to rods etc. All attached and travel pretty much as should, though I'm not happy with the total travel of the interior/exterior rod. Definitely something jamming it internally, it's not external stuff trapped in there, if that internal pin comes lose the mechanism simply can't get to the right point to release the catch. As you can't get the card off - screw up near wing mirror is not accessible it all working round the corner with a mirror... :wink:

Can you remove the door pins by taking off the front wing? That may be an easier solution either giving access to the three latch mount screws or the striker, which may come out (I don't mind sacrificing). Would certainly allow the whole card to come off if the front of the door can move out a small amount. Anyone tried this?

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cauchoiskev
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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by cauchoiskev » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:08 pm

Is the car a series 2 ? I've just completely taken apart and remounted one of those doors, and to get the card off there are only three torx screws (other than the arm rest) : two underneath the speaker cover and one under the mirror control. They should all be accessible with the door closed, I think.

Taking the wing off to get the pins out sounds like a nightmare, it's enough of a hassle the normal way.

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:14 pm

Top screw under mirror is hidden by edge of dash. You can just get a torx in there but no room to turn more than a couple of times. If I dent the dash in 25mm or so then it would come out....what it would give me is more direct vision not using a mirror or feel. Do you have a spare (black) dash?
I've realised i can't get the wing off as two bolts are hidden by the door... :wink: unfortunately, otherwise would have been OK. Just have to spend some hours trying to recreate the pivot position in a device I can't see (properly) or possible access with a hook to delatch it!. The previous latches have failed to shut so the door was open and you could get to it.

Have a nasty feeling this might be grind through from the outside, but I won't give up yet.

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:03 pm

Patience has it's reward - finally got the sod to open after a lot of p***ing about trying to get the latch to unhook. Problem is that the c/l pivot stays good but the handle inside and out, fulcrum pivot goes walkabout so you can't easily lever the catch around. Nte all rods were correctly attached. However there is a tab somewhere in there if you keep digging that will let you unhook it. So no damage to anything, door opened and card now fully off. This is not easy to describe but shows it is possible. It WILL happen to someone with a BX, so just keep trying and you will find that catch release part somehow with your fingers. Worth checking the other door (opposite side front) to see which way you need to move the catch.If it ever goes again, I hope it is like the others and stays open.... :wink:

Finding a replacement (door mechanism) has been 'interesting', though there is one in Thailand..... :wink:

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Tim Leech
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1991 CITROEN BX 19TZI AUTO A/C BXi 19
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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tim Leech » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:12 pm

There's over 50 bxs in Whittlesey for breaking!
1963 VW BEETLE 1200
1985 BX 19GT Mk1
1991 BX 19TZI Auto A/C
1994 Xantia 1.8i SX
1972 Morris Marina 1.8 SDL
1979 Rover SD1 V8-S
1980 Morris Marina 1.7HL
2002 Rover 75 CDTi Connossieur SE AUTO Nav
2003 Rover 25 1.6i XL 5 DR

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Re: Door stuck shut when opened on c/l

Post by Tinkley » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:22 am

Thanks for the heads up Tim.

The latch is replaced, and it now shuts as it should!. Thanks to the good guys at PTS Wokingham, who had access to a scrapper. As this is the third one I've replaced, it would be worth anyone scrapping a door salvaging this part. All have been drivers door, though of course on the continent they would be passenger side..... :wink: now to slightly adjust the door hinges....
I was struggling to remember how to do this job but it came back eventually, and no rod retaining clips broken!.