TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

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KevR
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TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:16 pm

Help! Does anyone have a link to a clear schematic for the cooling system on a 1991 TZD turbo diesel? I'm stuck in a big exhibition hall, knowing I've got to get from London to the ferry at Portsmouth tonight, and knowing I've got a coolant leak at the back of the engine, from somewhere just above the diesel pipe heater thing. i suspect a failing heater hose and I was hoping to come up with a way of blanking the circuit off temporarily, possibly by removing and blanking the small hose between thermostat housing on the head and the steel pipe that goes round the end of the block and down to the back of the engine. Anything else is pretty much inaccessible. But I can't remember exactly how it's all plumbed in back there... Would rather get my head round it before I have to go out in the dark and look at it in a few hours' time.

Any advice or links appreciated!
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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ken newbold
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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by ken newbold » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:10 pm

Sorry but this job is bad enough on a n/a diesel. On a turbo diesel I would look for alternative transport if I were you. From memory, one of the hoses is a short hose with metal braiding to protect from heat off the turbo, runs from down back of engine just above water pump to the heater matrix.
The other one is a longer pipe, braided again and seem to recall it running to a union coming out the back of the head. If this is the problem, it's fixable simply by shortening it a bit. If it's the short pipe that's failed or the plastic fitting down the back, I think you're gunna be unlucky :-(
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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Alternative transport isn't really an alternative! At the very least I need to get out of London and into the real world. If I have to do that by topping it up every five minutes, so be it. As you say, access at theback of theengine is appalling, but if I can blank off the short hose that runs just below the HP pump drive off theend of the cam, then I'm hoping that will simply isolate the heating and diesel preheat systems. What I don't know if whether that will have any other undesirable effects - for instance if the reurn from the heater circuit then flows somewhere else vital. Hence the need for a diagram. Would normally look at Cit Service but I don't have acess to that from here.
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:59 pm

I'm just looking around on the Service Citroen site but the pictures are pretty bad and it's not obvious which one the metal pipe is. I don't know much about the diesels, only the petrols.

I'm on the way from London to Portsmouth though. I'm not about tonight but if you get stuck or the car won't make it any further than Fareham, I'm happy to help if you need it. We've got some bits and bobs that could probably patch up a repair for you at the workshop, but nobody's there until tomorrow morning.

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:00 pm

If you know which pictures you need off S.C though let me know and I'll see if I can print them here.

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:13 pm

Thanks for that! If I get properly stuck I'll be straight back to you. It occurs to me that if blanking the short hose at the clutch end would only have the same effect as turning the heater off - so I'll try that and see what happens....
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:57 pm

You'd need to blank off the heater at both ends though, otherwise it'll all spill out!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:07 pm

My theory was that if the hose from underneath the thermo housing and down behind the engine was the feed for the heater, then if the leak is after the heater tap (which I'm pretty sure it is) then stopping the flow into the heater should at least slow the leak, since the pump will be drawing water away from the leak rather than forcing it past the leak, if that makes sense. I may be entirely wrong - I suspect I'll find out a bit later this evening...
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:05 pm

Would work if the system wasn't pressurised. Can't say I've tried it, but I can't see it working unless you can block both ends up.

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:16 pm

Off to collect the car now. If I make it to Portsmouth I'll update from the ferry!
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:49 pm

And the good news is I'm happily ensconced in a Pompey pub drinking beer. No problems at all, so preumably the leak's just a dribble. Will top up in the morning before I get off the boat, and see how much it's lost. Will investigate properly later in the week. Thanks for all suggestions and offers of help.
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:41 am

KevR wrote:happily ensconced in a Pompey pub drinking beer.
I've never heard 'happily' and 'Pompey' mentioned in the same sentence, unless it was "Would you like to see Pompey levelled?" In which case my answer would be "happily". :lol:

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:39 pm

Kitch wrote:
KevR wrote:happily ensconced in a Pompey pub drinking beer.
I've never heard 'happily' and 'Pompey' mentioned in the same sentence, unless it was "Would you like to see Pompey levelled?" In which case my answer would be "happily". :lol:
Aha, yes! I lived there for a few years in the eighties, and was delighted a few years back when they finally demolished the Tricorn Centre, which I'm sue was the inspiration for TheThe's description of 'a piss-stinking shopping centre on the wrong side of town'... Hmmn,can't remember the title of the song. Will have to dig the album out...

Got home no probs this morning, btw. Took a wine bottle full of water to top up.
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by Kitch » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:41 pm

Good work!

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Re: TD cooling system diagram - urgent!

Post by KevR » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm

Had a chance for a brief poke about this afternoon. Very hard to see exactly where the leak's coming from, but I think it's either from the short pipe (part no 1307J3) between the diesel heater (down by the water pump on this model) and the steel pipe behind the engine, or it's from the water pump itself although I think that's less likely. It's horribly gungy down there and access is awful, so first thing is a damn good jetwashing.
Then the easiest way to get it is to remove the drive shaft and lower engine mount. Fortunately I need to do that anyway as the driveshaft needs a new boot and the lower balljoint is utterly knackered and it needs a new handbrake cable and a new flexi hose, and..... It's also long overdue a cambelt change (more than 100,000 miles since the last one - how time flies....) so I'll do that and the water pump at the same time, as well as checking the valves and fitting a separate oil catch tank, which I've been meaning to do for ages. . I knew all this was coming up, but was hoping to postpone it 'til the white one's back on the road, but that's still stuck up on the ramp with no suspension fitted and no time to do anything about it.... Sometimes wish i didn't have quite so many projects...
1990 BX TZD Estate ('the grey one', 1991 BX TZD Estate ('the white one'), 1982 2CV6 Charleston (in bits), 1972 AZU Serie B (2CV van), 1974 HY72 Camper, 1990 Land Rover 110 diesel LWB, 1957 Mobylette AV76, 1992 Ducati 400SS, 1966 VW Beetle, 1990 Mazda MX-5, 1996 Peugeot 106D, 1974 JCB 2D MkII, 1997 BMW R1100RS, 1987 Suzuki GSX-R1100, 1978 Honda CX500A, 1965 Motobecane Cady, 1988 Honda Bros/Africa Twin, 1963 Massey Ferguson 825, and a lot of bicycles!