17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

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paintingbox
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17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:25 pm

Hi

I wonder if anyone can help me, I am having problems with my 17RD gearbox, which may or may not be related to an older repair. About 6000 miles ago I lost my clutch pedal which just fell to the floor as if the cable had snapped. Turns out it hadn't snapped but the selector fork had broken, my mechanic found a s/h fork and fitted it along with a new clutch, retainer and thrust bearing.

Soon after I got the car back I thought the thrust bearing was noisy and also it was sometimes difficult to engage reverse gear with the engine running. It also has developed a jet turbine whine noise from the transmission which has become more noticeable in the last few weeks. Finally yesterday on a 250 mile round trip on the motorway it started jumping out of fifth and the noise that I had previously thought was a noisy thrust bearing evidently is not as it is actually there when the clutch is disengaged but goes when it is engaged.

My mechanic says this is all unrelated to the previous work and I am inclined to agree with him except for the possibility that there may not be enough oil in the gearbox? He says it is more likely to be the input bearing? His suggestion is to try and find another gearbox rather than to repair this one, does this make sense? If at all possible I would like to repair the car as last year I also had lower balljoints, diff seals, driveshafts, timing belt and exhaust! It is Moted until November and I have had it for 3 years or so and love the car! Can anyone offer any advice on any of the above and also please advise if this particular gearbox is the same as the 1.9 (or anything else... C15, 205 etc)

Any help would be wonderful!

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David
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by David » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:16 pm

It sounds like they did not refill the oil properly when it was reassembled.

Really the easiest thing to do would be to put a full gearbox in, it's not that scary of a job & there are other cars that use the same box.

But the gearboxes are not that hard to pull apart & the input bearings could easily be got, but the question is what else has been damaged? If there has been a lack of oil then the full box could be damaged.

Hope that helps.
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Tinkley
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Tinkley » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:29 pm

Make sure you know what type of gearbox - BE1 or BE3 (most likely with reverse under 5th?) and the internal ratios that suit ie for 17RD. There are a few recon and s/h units around. The box itself is easy to fit if the engine is out, four bolts if I remember correctly from changing the clutch and release bearing. Also make sure the oil is the correct Total BV 75-80 as original. There is some debate about whether you need this specific oil but I personally stick to it religiously as too many good techs I know swear by it.

Not had to strip a car gearbox yet, but had a selector fork wear out on a motorccle one. 26 miles home with only first and second, fun on the then 70mph A3... :wink: I changed all three forks - result superb change. If one had gone, wear was about 0.15 - 0.20 mm I reckoned it was false economy to expect the others to be perfect. Once through the hardening it wears very very fast. The original 'rough' change was actually down to poor finishing in the factory. I'd done about 63k on it. It turned out fortuitous, as the nickasil plating was down to about 5 microns in the barrel so that got replated, the piston and rings were still spot on.

Just seen Kaapelimies post. On my 14 (unit box) when the engine was stripped apparently the nut holding 5th was about to come off. Could be if the BE3 is a development of that unit box.
Last edited by Tinkley on Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Kaapelimies » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:32 pm

Open the end cover of the gear box from the left side wheel well and tighten the nut that has come loose from the fifth gear sprockets. If problems continue then you probably have to change the box as repairing costs more.
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paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:46 pm

Hi, Thanks all..
Tinkley mine is Reverse up and to the left of 1st, does this make it a BE1?
Anyone know of a recon or s/h unit available with suitable ratios?

Cheers

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Tinkley » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:50 am

I'm fairly sure that's th BE1 box. Definitely try Kaapelimies suggestion first though. When my 14 engine/box came apart the tech asked if I had any problems selecting 5th. In fact I had not, but he said it was about to come off the shaft. I believe this happened to a few 150C unit engines, with catastrophic results... :( . Obviously did not lock down the retaining nut sufficiently. Either factory design or production problem. I know that is not the BE1 box but many of these things are developments, so the BE3 supercedes the BE1 and the BE4 comes after that etc etc.

Make sure you use a high quality 6 point soxket set getting those bolts off the end of the casing. You'll need to drain the oil as the fill hole is part of the cover. If I remember right a shallow 19mm nut, it was very very tight on my car.

paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:10 am

Ok thankyou I will try Kaapelimies suggestion

paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:11 pm

Just whilst I'm thinking of it, he did the driveshafts at the same time as the selector fork etc last year, but on the 'invoice' has not charged me for any gear oil, let alone specify the Total 75w80. I assume this is a mineral oil where as he possibly used an off the peg synthetic or semi-synthetic? If that is the case would this have had an adverse affect internally? Sorry to be a dunce but can anyone tell me ... I guess I drain from the bottom and fill from top or the side? Is the capacity 2 Ltrs? and can someone point me in the direction of a diagram .. Ta

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Tinkley » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:15 pm

The factory spec oil is the Total BV75-80 which you will find available online if you can't get it locally. It does drain from the top but fills from the 19mm nut on the side of the casing. You'll need a tube and funnel to do it. If I remember right it took about 1.8 ltr, so two 1Ltr containers of the oil will do it. With the car level, the correct oil level is the bottom of the fill hole, so when it drips out you're there, as long as you remember to drain it first and replace the drain plug.... :wink:

Would be worth testing selection 'dry' ie before filling with oil. There shoud still be sufficient oil covering to check even with an engine idling, front wheels off ground scenario, as no real load. However if the gearbox really needs changing, just drain and reuse, in the 'new' box.

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by KevR » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:12 pm

Definitely try tightening that nut - wish I'd known that before mine failed, taking fifth gear with it completely. You'll need a 12-point 28mm (I think) socket though. Not all sockets will fit.
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paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:13 pm

Ok fab.. thanks all. I will have a look at this and report back on Monday.
Kev/Kaap how tight do I need to do this nut up? does it need to be a certain torque or just as tight as I can get it with a normal wrench?...

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Kaapelimies » Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:56 am

As I recall it's like 200Nm, so by hand you can't break it. I think Russeks Pocket Mechanic had the full instructions how to do it properly; You remove the fork of fifth with 5th engaged and put 3rd in so the gearbox is jammed (two gears on at the same time) or something like that. My Russek is somewhere I cannot find it so sorry can't help with the right instructions :cry: .
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paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:09 pm

Ok thanks Kaap .. I have Russek but I am not at home at the moment, I wonder how safe it would be to drive the car home .. about 50 miles.. I could avoid using 5th?

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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by Kaapelimies » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:04 pm

If the nut is loose I think all the bearings are loose too. If you have driven until this, I would drive home (when the roads are empty) avoiding heavy acceleration or motor breaking. And not to use 5th at all. Worst that can happen is that the box seezes up if bearing rolls drop and go between teeths. But the choise is yours.
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paintingbox
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Re: 17RD Gearbox Problems Can Anyone Help!

Post by paintingbox » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:54 pm

Ok.. I have removed the end casing and there is a lot of play in the bearing.. there are also some pieces of wire which seem to be protruding ..they look a bit as if they shouldn't be I have taken a photo is it possible to post it on here? thanks