Might have a serious engine problem..

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andycadabra
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Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by andycadabra » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:38 am

Might have a serious engine problem. Engine suddenly became noisier, and knockier. Drove home and took it to the garage the next day. They reckoned it was probably a broken camshaft, but told me to bring it back the next day when their chief mechanic would be in. However the engine has refused to start since then.
The thing is, it occurred to me later that the pulley that drives the hydraulic pump on the offside of the engine is turning when I turn the engine over, [albeit slower than I'd have expected, about twice a second so 120 rpm - I don't know if this is normal].

Surely this suggests that the camshaft is in one piece?

Also when I turn the engine over after a few seconds the engine starts rocking back and forth.
It's been doing this a bit for 6 weeks or so but has always eventually started, but now no.
The current 1.9 XUD9te engine was from a low mileage Peugeot 306, and fitted about 4 years ago, with new cambelt, and camshaft from my old 1.7td, because it had the pulley for HP.
It's now done 110k and has never burnt any oil.
Any ideas anyone?. Not sure what to do. Have it investigated further, or replace engine again?
1992 BX 17TZD 130k
1987 BX 16TRS SORN

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mat_fenwick
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by mat_fenwick » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:02 pm

200 rpm is a fairly normal cranking speed whenever I've measured it (although not on the BX) so the camshaft spinning at 120 rpm (half engine speed) is in the right sort of ballpark. And proves the cam has not snapped; that was a surprising diagnosis to say the least!

However, I don't have any pointers other than checking for fuel (crack open a fuel pipe union) and compression.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by Jaba » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:46 pm

Cambelt is probably a good place to start by checking its timing and therebye its condition. Apart from that a compression test would show any probs with dropped valves or any other failure.
Sounds like a bit of work will be needed to fix it whatever it turns out to be......... But thats why we run BXs isn't it ????
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by ken newbold » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:19 am

Could be something as simple as injector failure, as you say the engine has been shaking around on start up for some time.
Camshaft is easy enough to check, just take the rocker cover off and have a look, and as said above, inspect the timing belt and tension of it at the same time. Rule 1, always check the easiest AND cheapest first.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by Dragon Man » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:54 pm

make sure the fuel pump is in the right position.. it may have loosened and the pumps timing may be off...
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by andycadabra » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Apologies to Mat, Jaba and Ken - I missed seeing the email notification of your posts of 20 February. Thanks for those useful suggestions - and for the one I just got from Dragon man ( I tried moving the fuel pump but it seems to be solid).

The Garage that diagnosed probable broken camshaft talked about charging me hundreds of pounds to take the engine apart, but from your suggestions it seems diagnostics could be less drastic so I'll try to get it to a more reputable garage and have them do a compression test and check the timing, and injectors.
The good news is that I gave the battery good charge and managed to start it today. Starting was quite odd - it initially turned over quietly and smoothly, then became jerkier, and noisier and eventually started. Restarting it from warm was very easy.

I managed to shoot a bit of video mainly for the usefulness of the sound, But it's hard to convey the actual volume which is about twice as loud as a normal engine. Anyway here it is on YouTube - https://youtu.be/ly0vC5tvpwE Please let me know if it inspires any thoughts..
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by jamescarruthers » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:56 pm



Does your car not sound quite similar to the Lucas diesel pump that you can hear running on its own on a test rig in this video? I am surprised at how loud it is!
Last edited by jamescarruthers on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by Kaapelimies » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:57 pm

Timing problem. Check timing belt it has probably jumped a teeth or two, the fuel pump is too early. Or, one or several injectors are leaking. Find a decent diesel garage to fix it if your's doesn't understand diesel engines.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by andycadabra » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:48 pm

James - Thanks - but not sure because the link is missing!.
Kaapelimies - that sounds really helpful. My instinct is that leaking injectors wouldn't cause that increase in engine noise, but that a timing problem is likely to. would you agree?
For the last few months I was driving it, it would randomly not respond for up to 3 or 4 seconds when I put my foot on the throttle after being stationary. Do you think that might be down to faulty injectors? [You can see a bit of delay happening in this video]
1992 BX 17TZD 130k
1987 BX 16TRS SORN

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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by Kaapelimies » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Leaking injectors also cause a timing problem, because the fuel enters the cylinder before it should, to be ignited well. It could also be a huge air in the diesel line problem, that affects the timing if it's a lucas pump.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by Dragon Man » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:27 pm

as that is knocking quite bad i would say that it is injecting way to early. as said, my own thoughts would be the belt skipping a tooth. another thing that has been found on the XUD is the key shaft on the crank pulley can sometimes come loose causing the pulley to slip a little on the crank shaft. even if it only moves a little bit it can cause a big shift higher up on the larger pulleys. see if the crankshaft bolt is loose.. you'd have to get a new woodruff key as it most likely would have chewed it up, if it is loose that is.

its worth checking all these silly things, just in case!
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Drives: a classic Panda 4x4 called Project Fallout
classic Panda 4x4 Sisley named Talon
broken BX Diesel Estate in silver that's currently for sale.

Fix it Again Tomorrow. no special tools needed, always able to fix it! :)

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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by andycadabra » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:35 pm

Thanks again Kaapelimies. Leaking injectors may be making the problem worse, but it was quite a sudden change, when this noise arrived, so the more plausible cause seems to be that the timing belt jumped a tooth or 2. JohnDragonMan - thanks for your helpful thoughts on this. I had a look at the crankshaft pulley bolt ,but didn't expect it to be more than 19 mm so didn't have a spanner or a short socket to move it with , but it certainly wasn't 'hand loose'.
There's quite a good diesel specialist about 8 city miles away, so I think I'm going to put it with them. Assuming that it's a timing problem do you think it will be ok to drive it there, or lean my breakdown service to recover me there? one of the low-grade garages I originally took it to for an opinion, reckoned it was either a broken cam or big end gone, and said I'd be lucky to get 20 miles out of it, but of course he never noticed the happily spinning HP pulley, on the offside end of the camshaft.
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by rutter123 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:17 am

I have a complete turbo d spare engine for sale with Lucas pump, injectors, turbo, starter, was running pre removal mileage 180k but sound with no rattles needs a good clean and service prob a few gaskets but its all there c/w gearbox, may save you a few quid in the long run with garage bills/recovery etc etc Fairly easy to swap over, could prob arrange delivery if your interested

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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by andycadabra » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:33 am

Thanks Rutter - That's good to know
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1987 BX 16TRS SORN

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jamescarruthers
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Re: Might have a serious engine problem..

Post by jamescarruthers » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:35 pm

andycadabra wrote:James - Thanks - but not sure because the link is missing!.
Sorry, the video does seem to have had its copyright changed so can't be viewed outside of Germany. Good luck fixing your engine anyway!
1987 Volvo 480 ES
1992 Renault Master Mk. 1. Machzone Chateau camper. 2.0 LPG

Previous BX's:
A966 XRL -- BX 16 TRS
H767 BEG -- BX 14 TGE
B316 AMP -- BX 14 E