BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

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ssiegert
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BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hi,
third try to post this.

since 2018 I am the owner of a BX GTI 4x4. I imported it from France ignoring all the warnings in various forums to stay away as the gear box and rear axles are too weak and spare parts almost not existent.

One big maintenance job later done by a specialist, replacing the 23 year old tyres and the Sphères, it rides smoothly and makes a lot of fun.

Recently I was able to buy all three gear boxes from classifieds and took the main and the transfer box apart. Quite worn in my opinion.

I am in serious contact with a company, that can reproduce the shafts from main gearbox into the distribution box on the 4x4. Want one or do you know somebody, whose BX is stranded because of these? The more people join in, the cheaper these parts will become. These are the culprits. Too weak in construction. I have sent the original parts over to the shop yesterday, so that they can evaluate potential improvements and give an estimation of the cost. I am asking people in Germany, UK and France and wonder if 10 sets are needed. This is a private initiative, so I can only start this if enough people at least indicate interest.
Contact me please.
Thanks and regards
Sebastian

Kaapelimies
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by Kaapelimies »

Everything depends on the price. For allready some time ago there was a company in Finland that repaired the axles by welding new stubs, I don't know if it still exists. The cost was around 300 Euros at that time if I recall it right, for a pair that is. Of course now we have all 3D scanning, CNC and even printing so I'm really interested in the price for whole new axles.
BX 4x4 estate, several BX Van's and some more normal estates in Finland.

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hi Kaapelimies,
You are on my list. :-) Thanks for raising this.
There is a company in Austria near Salzburg, that offers the same according to a colleague from the Citroen Veteran Club here in Munich. they charge about 500 EUR for welding, cutting and hardening, but I believe a completely new and improved part might be better. Even at a higher price.
Thanks again for indicating interest.
Sebastian

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

The search continues: I got a rejection by the company that evaluated the transmission shafts. They don´t have the machinery to reproduce the shafts with the internal sprockets. :-(
So I will have to continue to search for companies or solutions.
Regards
Sebastian

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Vanny
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by Vanny »

Maybe a company which does titanium 3D printing?

As mad as it sounds, it's cheaper than you would expect and the resolution is incredible. Any shape is possible then

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hi Vanny, I will definitely have a look into this.
thanks for making me aware.
Regards
Sebastian

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Jaba
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by Jaba »

A 4x4 owner on here many years back now found a solution when his splines failed. He had a local engineering company machine out some grooves and fitted what he call dogs into the grooves to give a fix and a much stronger coupling. I don't know any more than what I have written but there must have been some sort of retainer fitted too to keep them in place.
Something to think about perhaps ?
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hi Jaba,
thanks for this contribution.
I will discuss this with the machine shop.
All ideas are welcome.
Regards
Sebastian

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

HI,
just a quick update: Last week I sent the shafts to yet another company to evaluate whether they can reproduce them. I expect a reply this or ext week. So the project is not finished yet.
REgards
Sebastian

ssiegert
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hi Folks,
yesterday I received an offering for the reproduction of the transmission shafts.
One set: EUR 4.000.-; 10 sets at EUR 1.750 each; 20 sets at EUR 1.450 each and then there is VAT coming on top.
Two immediate questions:
1. Would the price at 20 units be interesting at all?
2. Could we find 20 people interested? In Europe?
What do you think?
Thanks and regards
sebastian

Kaapelimies
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by Kaapelimies »

I'm totally out of interest at that pricing, sorry..
BX 4x4 estate, several BX Van's and some more normal estates in Finland.

ssiegert
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:32 pm
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

HI Kaapelimies,
No apology needed. This is what I wanted to know and frankly, expected. I have no intention to put a set on the shelf either at this price level.
Thanks for your quick reply.
Sebastian

ssiegert
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My Cars: 1973 Citroen DS Break in bleu delta; 1991 Citroen BX GTI 4x4 in silver gray; 2016 Citroen C5 Tourer Selection 150 S&S dark grey
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Hello everyone

Status of the gear shaft project

On June 4th I had a long conversation with an engineer from the company www.hahn-fertigungstechnik.de in Papenburg.

Citroen has built its own tool for everything and all gears do not meet any DIN standards. The shaft in the transfer case has a plastic bushing in which the differential is aligned. When reproducing the whole shaft, this socket would also have to be reproduced, which would be expensive given the unknown material and the technical requirements. Both shafts were made from several parts and welded together.

He has measured the two shafts and comes up with the following suggestions for improvement:
Shaft with internal toothing: Enlargement of the toothing inside using a DIN 2480 standard toothing. So fewer, but bigger teeth.
Shaft with external toothing: Reduction of the diameter to the same extent, which should not be a problem, since nothing else has to run through the shaft.
The shafts would be nitrided to guarantee hardness.


The scenarios are as follows:
1. Complete reproduction of both shafts, which would cost EUR 1450 for 20 sets. That is too much and the 20 pieces are also very optimistic.
2. Reproduction of the shaft with external teeth from one piece. Production of a sleeve with internal toothing for welding to the existing shaft. The sleeve would receive a guide in the hollow shaft so that it would be easier to attach. To do this, a spectral analysis of the material must be carried out (costs extra) so that the properties for the welding can be determined. Still, that would be cheaper.
3. Reproduction of both gears only as sleeves.

My preference would be scenario 2 and if that were supported I would have it calculated.

Regards
Sebastian

ssiegert
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:32 pm
Location: Germering near Munich
My Cars: 1973 Citroen DS Break in bleu delta; 1991 Citroen BX GTI 4x4 in silver gray; 2016 Citroen C5 Tourer Selection 150 S&S dark grey
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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by ssiegert »

Nobody replied to the last post here and so I will stop the project. There seem to be only 2-3 of these cars left in each country or no one who cares.
I will officially stop the project next Monday, June 15, 2020.

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Re: BX 4x4 / 4WD transmission shafts reproduction?

Post by panky »

As a non 4x4 (or even a BX) owner I would just like to thank you for your efforts. Owners of old cars need people like you to plan for the future =D>
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