1.6 TRS Oil in one of the bores

Jezzie 16v · Post by **Jezzie 16v** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:57 pm

Been having a bit of trouble with it for a few weeks now, it has been using (not losing) a bit of water but with no real signs of H/G failure but over the last week it has been a real pain.
It cut out when the Wife was driving it and she could not get it re-started so i went and got it, it is now showing small signs of H/G failure (mayo in the filler neck and a bit on the dipstick). Anyway i had a set of plugs so i changed 3 with no bother but the 4th plug (battery end) was covered in oil, i mean covered

.
The Haynes reckons worn rings,bores or valve guides is likely, has anyone else come across this with the 1.6 ?

Thanks Jez.

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:41 pm

How far has the car been ? .... I showed two old 16's over 200,000 miles each and never had the head off (and never consumed any oil either!!!) .... camshafts replaced, but never had a head off...

I think it would be unusual for the head gasket failure to coat a plug in oil. I would suspect stem seals or guides first, but you would normally notice a gradual increase in oil consumption over the previous few thousands of miles, not a sudden refusal to start and oily plug...

Did have a 1.6 GTI Pug (same engine more or less) drop a guide out of the head once ... was rattling nicely up and down with the valve ... and yes it still ran when it arrived in the workshop!!!

I would beg borrow or steal a compression tester and see what the leak down is like before taking the head off... but I would think head removal to see what is actually going on would be your next step....

Jezzie 16v · Post by **Jezzie 16v** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:52 pm

Hi,
Thanks for the reply, the car has done 102k and has not been using much oil, we have had the car for the last 3k but this may have been in its early stages going on what you have said. About 8 weeks ago it was playing up and i had the plugs out and they were all a bit cruddy, but the oily plug now was the worst of them all then so i cleaned them up it it has been fine until now.
Looks like i will have to drop it down to my mechanic for him to have a look at, taking the head off is out of the question for me as i dont have the tools or the experiance to do it. Having said that if its going to cost shed loads maybe this will be my time to learn and practice.

Thanks Jez

Jezzie 16v · Post by **Jezzie 16v** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:45 am

Right i have dicided that i will be whipping the head off this soon to asses whats going on, has anybody got one of those 5 sided star socket things they would like to lend me? Or are they cheap enough to buy?, I've never seen them anywhere ! Any help would be very nice

Thanks Jez

tom · Post by **tom** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:17 am

Hold on. If you are prepared to listen to some friendly advice, you may be jumping to conclusions. There are lots of reasons why a plug could be oiling up and throwing money and time at the head may not be worthwhile.
What you have to do is to make a proper diagnosis before you begin. Agreed the symptoms look like a problem but this plug, although cleaned, has fouled again. This could be due to a faulty plug or plug lead whigh is not a rare event. The valve clearances should be checked as well, in case a valve is not closing fully and causing the cylinder in question to misfire. Having ruled those issues out, You proceed to the next stage. It will cost about fifteen pounds for a compression tester (Which you'll have for ever,) to verify what is actually going on. Large amounts of oil in a cylinder commonly signify something other than a head problem, often being due to a piston ring failure or damaged piston. A compression test will at least tell you if the fault is lower down the engine which may mean that it is cheaper and easier to swap the whole engine instead.
Head jobs are quite involved on a BX and if you have not done one before, it could waste a lot of time and money for no result, so I would not proceed without the compression test. Maybe you have a local garage who can do it for you which won't be expensive. If they are honest, they'll let you see how it is done, so you can get some idea of what is going on.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:27 am

If you take the filler cap off with the engine hot and running do you choke on the fumes? If you do you have broken piston rings which would account for the oil in one bore. Excessive fuming is usually accompanied by a very oily engine as the crankcase pressure forces oil out of places you didn't even know existed.

Torx bits - you need something like this:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... somewhere.

Jezzie 16v · Post by **Jezzie 16v** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:37 pm

jeremy wrote: Excessive fuming is usually accompanied by a very oily engine as the crankcase pressure forces oil out of places you didn't even know existed.

That just about sums it up, fumes from the dipstick and the filler cap and the N/S of the engine is VERY wet from oil !

Jez

tom · Post by **tom** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:42 pm

Hmm, that sounds much more like piston trouble than head problems. I think you had better start casting about for another engine. It is an easier job than a head gasket job (which, if done properly costs more than a good used engine.)

saint gaz · Post by **saint gaz** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:54 pm

Sorry i cant realy help that much with your problem, however i have found these chaps to be reasonably priced for tooling as i have had to get a few things recently, compression tester for £15, tow rope, spot weld drills ect ect ect.
I am slowly building up a nice little work shop in the garage now with a work bench and vice, and a few other bits, just have to sort it out over the bank holiday.

http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/

saint gaz · Post by **saint gaz** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:56 pm

Sorry i cant realy help that much with your problem, however i have found these chaps to be reasonably priced for tooling as i have had to get a few things recently, compression tester for £15, tow rope, spot weld drills ect ect ect.
I am slowly building up a nice little work shop in the garage now with a work bench and vice, and a few other bits, just have to sort it out over the bank holiday.

http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/

cavmad · Post by **cavmad** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:14 pm

If it`s the same engine as the 405 petrol the white gunge could very likely be condensation. I had that problem with one I`d bought from a local garage and they told me it was because of me making short jourenys in it barely off choke and it needed a damn good pasting on a regular basis.
Thinking they were full of shit I asked a friendly Peugot dealer I knew at the time who confirmed what the garage had said.
This wouldn`t explain one plug oiling up of course but might be worth investigating.

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:27 pm

A duff plug lead is surely not the cause of an oily plug... that oil has to be coming from somewhere , a leakdown/compression test is the first thing to be doing, but it doesn't sound hopeful.. and if it's all that worn, I would think punting around for another engine is probably the easiest thing to be doing...

tom · Post by **tom** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:38 pm

Trust me, doz, it can well be. The BX suffers from worn valve guides and a plug lead breaking down on overrun will often oil up when the engine is cold.

Post by **docchevron** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:39 am

and it doesn't take much guide wear to oil things up either. I've seen this a few times on BX's, always 1.9 8 valves I have to say, but an engine is an engine is an engine.

Even with a spark, things can get oily.

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:05 pm

tom wrote:Trust me, doz, it can well be. The BX suffers from worn valve guides and a plug lead breaking down on overrun will often oil up when the engine is cold.

I bow to your superior knowledge!

I've stuck startship mileage on these engines.... never had the head of a BX16(had 2, 250K a piece) , but the Pug 405 wasn't as good to me (had 2, both heads off at around 120k) ... Pug's seem to wear out the guides, and smoke accordingly, BX's seem to wear out camshafts.... I did ask my Citroen Guru at the time (a guy called Paul, built a 2ltr GSA for grasstracking, but couldn't keep a gearbox in it!.. retired now, sadly missed) he said it was to do with the cooling differences between the two applications ...?