Dead battery? Or BXs coming alive and conspiring?

[stuart_hedges]

So, I'm just back from viewing this BX.

When I was about to leave, my BX (D180) wouldn't start. It just clicked the solenoid without turning the starter, as if the battery was flat. I always keep jump cables in the boot, so I asked the seller to give me a jump. He swung his BX (B999) around and we hooked up the leads. No joy.

He switched B999 off and I was about to give up and call for a rescue, but decided to give it one more try. I twisted the key and D180 burst into life! Grand.

So, the seller went to start up B999 to park her up so that I could get out of the car park and go home. Nothing - not even a click. We reconnected the jump leads to try and start B999 from D180, but no joy. We weren't too worried about B999 - it's normal for a car that's been standing to have a low battery. We gave up, disconnected the leads and went to push B999 into her parking space. He gave it one more try and lo and behold; she sprang into life. He turned her off and on a few more times; no problem.

I drove home and parked up. Tried to start her up again - nothing. Just a click from the solenoid.

As both these cars are autos, I'm wondering if the switch that stops you from starting the car when in gear is playing up. I've had problems with these on other cars.

Or were they just playing a trick on us?

[mountainmanUK]

Ahhh! These French females are ganging up on you! You know what women are like for conspiring against us fellas? D180 was probably jealous of you looking at another filly, so went over and had a word in B999s ear...then they concocted a 'cunning plan' to screw you up!!

.......or maybe I should put down this bottle of Lagavulin?

[tim leech]

Try putting the car in N and see if it will start, or it could be the batterys dead and that you flattened the on on the TRS trying to start yours.

[DavidRutherford]

To check if it's a starter inhibitor problem, turn the key to "start", but with the selector at "D" (or is it "A" in a BX?) then move it through "N" when the car should of course start cranking.

What this does is move the small spark that you get when engaging the starter motor from the ignition switch to the starter inhibitor switch. If the contacts were a bit crap, then the spark can (sometimes) burn off some deposits, or otherwise make them a bit better.

This worked very effectively on a Mercedes-Benz W124 a couple of years ago. Starter inhibitor switch was completely open circuit. Did that little procedure and it lasted another year (car was then sold... may still be working)

If may of course be just dirty contacts in the starter solenoid, or a bit of heat soak into the starter making it a bit iffy. I've had a couple of starters that would work fine when cold, and fine when you'd not long stopped the engine. But there was a time period from about 20 mins after stopping to about an hour later when they would be a little tempremental, needing several twists of the key to make the solenoid go fully home, and hence energise the starter motor.

If you need a spare, I have Umpteen spare starter motors.

Edit: Just re-read this topic, and I forgot one vital piece of information:

If the starter makes a clonk sound, but fails to crank the engine, then the starter inhibitor is fine, and the starter is at fault. If there is no clonk, then either the ignition key switch, the starter inhibitor switch or associated wiring is at fault.

[AlanS]

Sounds a classic case of worn brushes in the starter motor.
Have had a couple now and here's the way to r & r as well as tricks to reconditioning.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23512


Alan S

[Oscar]

Check your alternator. This is exactly what happened with me and you know the result - car stranded in Essex for a week.

[jeremy]

I agree with Alan - movement, fiddling, temperature change etc jogs the brushes a touch and all is well for a bit. This is where a hammer is a useful diagnostic tool - if it won't work and then does after a tap (tap only) on the starter then the chances are you've found your problem.

Ignition switches can fail (ZX one did but repeated operation would get it to work), but if you are getting total electrical death then its probably a battery terminal or (much less likely) an earth lead.

As usual with car electrics - look for and eliminate the simple first - we've all done it and felt very foolish after wards - spending hours chasing some apparently complex fault only to find for example that an earth lead has broken off its terminal.

[kiwi]

Battery

Recently chnaged the battery in my BX19TZ manual because it was showing similer symptoms as described. Battery Check said it was just about ready to be replaced but with winter coming up and a guarantee I would be using it up on the mountain replcaed it.
Problem solved straight away!

My Pontiac Auto also experianced the same thing sometimes it would start sometimes just a click like the bushes or solenoid sticking. Cure !!!
You guessed it a new Battery.

Summery
Get battery checked out if not 100% or borderline replace it. Then look at other things.

[stuart_hedges]

To check if it's a starter inhibitor problem, turn the key to "start", but with the selector at "D" (or is it "A" in a BX?) then move it through "N" when the car should of course start cranking.

Thanks David - I didn't know this trick and it worked!

I'm not ruling out starter troubles yet as they can work intermittently for a while before giving out.

I think the battery is OK though, as the dash lights stay bright when the car is trying to start. I'm super busy atm or I would hoik it out and test it on my charger.

I'm moving house tomorrow so this is the worst time for a breakdown!

[mat_fenwick]

eliminate the simple first - we've all done it and felt very foolish after wards

Like spending a good 20 minutes trying to work out why my Discovery wouldn't start, before eventually storming off in disgust - only to realise the following day that the gearbox was in 'D' not 'N' or 'P'

[kiwi]

I think the battery is OK though, as the dash lights stay bright when the car is trying to start

Code: Select all

Funny thats what I thought.

[mnde]

To check if it's a starter inhibitor problem, turn the key to "start", but with the selector at "D" (or is it "A" in a BX?) then move it through "N" when the car should of course start cranking.

Thanks David - I didn't know this trick and it worked!

I'm not ruling out starter troubles yet as they can work intermittently for a while before giving out.

I think the battery is OK though, as the dash lights stay bright when the car is trying to start. I'm super busy atm or I would hoik it out and test it on my charger.

I'm moving house tomorrow so this is the worst time for a breakdown!

I've just remembered: Chris's 16TRS has gained a new starter motor recently... I had the problem re. starting in Park when I borrowed it in 2004. Cured by waggling the gearstick back and forth slightly. But it may have developed into something else if it needed a new starter motor in the end.

This is a problem not limited to autos: I got intermittent problems starting the old Meteor (i.e. just a click). Eventually one day I got in it to drive to work on a Saturday: nothing!! I had to call out the AA, who diagnosed a duff starter - and the guy very kindly ordered a new one and fitted it on my drive!! I just paid for the cost of the motor

Mark.

[Kitch]

Could also be a bad earth on the main harness. Mine came loose and kept playing silly buggers until I changed the cable.

[stuart_hedges]

Right then.

I haven't been driving the car enough to be sure - and I haven't had the time to start crawling over it looking for bad earths - but the pattern seems to be that the car starts fine in the mornings but is a bit more reluctant when it's hot. This suggests that the starter motor's on the way out.

However, there's no "clonk" (described in David's post). Hrm...

[stuart_hedges]

Drove to Canterbury and back over two days - 90 miles each way. Each time I drove the distance in one and re-started the car once I'd arrived, just to see if it would work. No problems. Garn.