Vinegar.

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:31 am

Often hearing suggestions about use of vinegar in car repairs. Has anyone here ever successfully used it?
Reason I ask is that when I had the sheared off headbolt saga, an engine rebuilder suggested a soaking in that as a way to get fluid between the thread and the block. Whether it worked or not I can't say due to all the other dramas we had to go through to remove the thread that was jammed/rusted/corroded in there, however this car had a badly rotted away head gasket, possibly as bad as I've ever seen with only the 2 sets of 2 circles that fit between the head and liner remaining as well as the outside edge of teh gasket, the rest was gone into the system, so it really needed some cleaning out, so I decided I'd try the vinegar again. (White vinegar about A$1.00 a bottle at the Supermarket. After a while it seemed to get slightly tainted, but not enough to claim it was doing much that plain water wouldn't do, so my wife walking past promptly announces that if it were her, she'd ad a bit of Bi-carb of Soda based on a tip she'd seen on TV, so I decided to give it a go as I was getting nowhere as it was.
When added, it foamed up like bottle of hot beer that had been shaken up and proceeded to start coming out of the top, so I lifted one end and let it all sit for a while.
I then laid it back down, removed the bung from the top and fitted it in at the bottom and let it sit that way for a while. I then poured the vinegar out into a container after it had stood overnight and a good cupful of crap came out. I carefully poured the vinegar into another container, leaving all the solid residue behind and then added a bit of Bi-carb to the now empty radiator and then carefully added the vinegar I'd retrieved from the previous soaking. I could hear it fuzzing and fizzing away inside and I topped the vinegar up with some fresh stuff untill it came out of the other end (radiator laying flat while all this was going on) and again, it came out looking like white tea. Tossed it back and forth to make certain it had got right through all of the core and again drained it and another big heap of garbage came out, so I did another wash out with added Bi-carb and by this time it had almost cleared. Left it in there overnight and next day drained into a container again and almost perfect, so I ran the hose through it and the water passing through was crystal clear.
Thought I'd give a blow by blow description of what I did and the results I achieved because up to date it seems there's been plenty who have "heard about someone using it" but with no results or method used it has been something a lot of us have thought about only but never put into practice. From my expetrience in this instance, I'd say every bit as successful as any proprietry branded radiator cleaners. Maybe a bit more trouble to do, but according to those into metallurgy a far safer option.

Alan S

Post by **docchevron** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:44 am

Never dabbled with it myself, although Bi-carb is well known and works well.
The closest I get to using vinegar in engineering is dosing up my chips with it while sat on a 10.45 litre engine block..

But having seen the mess various brands of "radiator flush" can make of an otherwise servicable rad it's got to be wortha try, and by the sounds of it worked very well indeed, I'll try that on the rad in my coach, thats 38 years old, and is bound to be bunged full of sh!t.

davidc · Post by **davidc** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:00 am

Hi
Just reading this interesting post. Alan, what have you done about flushing the block (to be done once head is back on I presume)? My tzi is running hot and I suspect it could be the head as a new radiator (old one failed the radiator repairer's pressure tester)has only improved the situation marginally, thank god for the fan system still working well. However I would like to try all possible fixes before removing the head just yet. To me unimpeded flow of coolant has to be number one on the list for good cooling. So what is recommended to flush out the block, bicarb and vinegar mix?
cheers
David

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:23 am

My old motor vehicle lecturer used to swear by washing soda for radiator flushing, last time I bought some it was something like 50p for a half kilo bag.
Stewart

Post by **docchevron** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:05 pm

Stewart (oily!) wrote: last time I bought some it was something like 50p for a half kilo bag.
Stewart

If only heroin was as cheap, then all the scum using it could afford to overdose and wipe themselves out...

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:33 pm

They would just get clean arteries

Stewart

AlanS · Post by **AlanS** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:55 pm

davidc wrote:Hi
Just reading this interesting post. Alan, what have you done about flushing the block (to be done once head is back on I presume)? My tzi is running hot and I suspect it could be the head as a new radiator (old one failed the radiator repairer's pressure tester)has only improved the situation marginally, thank god for the fan system still working well. However I would like to try all possible fixes before removing the head just yet. To me unimpeded flow of coolant has to be number one on the list for good cooling. So what is recommended to flush out the block, bicarb and vinegar mix?
cheers
David

David,

I didn't have to worry about the block as I did a complete rebuild so I physically cleaned the entire engine out whilst I had it on the bench.
Can't see that it would be any problems using it in an entire flush providing you used the Bi-carb with discretion or you might end up with froth everywhere.
As a suggestion, I swapped the thermostat in this car to one that opened at 82 degrees instead of the 88 ones they tend to sell you out here and it ran like a top until he blew a hose off and ran it bone dry and almost seized it. A new radiator cap on my Xantia also cured an overheating problem with that car, so many ways to beat the heat.
Got to be the toughest engines ever built. Brother, has this one copped a whalloping.

Alan S

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:48 pm

If you add bicarb (an alkali) to vinegar (acetic acid) it will effervess a lot, but isn't the resultant solution more or less of neutral pH? Just a thought ... my schoolboy chemistry was along time ago! I would have thought just bicarb or just vinegar on it's own would have been best, but don't we have to be careful with alloy blocks and the like?

Is there a chemistry expert around?

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:17 pm

Yup thats right, it should be either one or the other, the fizzing will be CO2 being given off, I have heard of guys cleaning marine engine cooling systems using diet coke, yes really, it might be worth a shot, any left over is safe to consume if you take the edge off it with Whisky.
Stewart

mountainmanUK · Post by **mountainmanUK** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:32 pm

The effervessence will help, a little, in the same way that one of these foaming drain cleaners works. The reaction between the acid (vinegar) and the alkali (soda) creates a lot of CO2, which causes the foaming effect. This makes the whole concoction expand, so that it will fill the entire waterway, rather than trickling around the bottom half (gravity-wise!).
A long time since I got my GCE O-level Chemistry, but it's a fair assumption that a mix of say 80% vinegar, with 20% soda, will leave the acid effect of the vinegar proportion as the "active ingredient". Similarly, if the mix is the other way around, the mainly alkaline soda will have a caustic effect.
Both ways will do something towards cleaning out the waterways. My guess is that a 50-50 mix would do very little, as it would make the overall mix "ph-neutral"!

I used to know a guy who made up a mix of Harpic (toiler scourer) with hot water, and ran that through his system for an hour or so, every 6 months! He never had any cooling problems!!!

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:43 pm

Yes , that makes sense....

Once freed a seized piston up in a marine engine with a mixture of coke and brown sauce. That was really nasty 'cos sea water had got down the bore...

Stewart (oily!) · Post by **Stewart (oily!)** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:44 pm

I used to know a guy who made up a mix of Harpic (toiler scourer) with hot water, and ran that through his system for an hour or so, every 6 months! He never had any cooling problems!!!
_________________He must have been clean round the bend

Stewart

Doz · Post by **Doz** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:15 pm

Stewart (oily!) wrote:I used to know a guy who made up a mix of Harpic (toiler scourer) with hot water, and ran that through his system for an hour or so, every 6 months! He never had any cooling problems!!!
_________________He must have been clean round the bend
Stewart

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:20 pm

I use a vinegar mix once a year in the BX colling system, and I can concur that it does work. If you use too strong a mix it will foam and presurise the system. I find 15% mix about right.

I also use vinegar to clear the scale form our domestic kettle.

If you live in an hard water area, then your kettle will scale up pretty quickly.
Do a practical test using Bi carb, bring to the boil, clean out then use vinegar, bring to the boil again, see which one is best...Then report back on this thread...

mountainmanUK · Post by **mountainmanUK** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:28 pm

If you live in an hard water area, then your kettle will scale up pretty quickly.

I think we are pretty lucky up here in darkest Lancashire!

We have lovely, tasty, soft water.
We have owned our kettle for more than 10 years, and there has been absolutely NO furring at all.
The few times that I have tasted the water down South, has been at my sisters, in Cheshunt, Herts. Bloody awful stuff!!!

It IS good to confirm that people really have had success using these easy, cheap, home-made remedies. Gawd knows what this will do to sales of Radflush!!!!