fitting a new pinion valve

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charlie
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fitting a new pinion valve

Post by charlie »

am just about to start fitting a new pinion valve and was reading

http://www.bxclub.co.uk/diy/pinion/

its Oscars description about the valve
Now working on the pinion valve. With the wheels in the straight-ahead direction, scribe a datum mark showing the relative position of the pinion valve spindle and the pinion valve body. This is important, as otherwise there is a risk of refitting the valve in a position that doesn't correspond to the rack's position.
do i have to still follow this given i am not refitting the old

and if i do what do i line up

charlie
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charlie
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Post by charlie »

also on the stem of the new valve,

there seems to be a extra bit of plastic that goes down one side and over the top of the stem

charlie
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guiness white..........

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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi Charlie -

I believe Oscar was concerned that the pinion valve had a flat to match with the flexible coupling - and thus the position of the seering wheel.
But there is no indexing of the pinion to the rack - other than required by the housing and the bolts. So you may just fit it as you like and bolt it down.
The plastic cover I believe is made to fit several models with various mounting details. You only need to fit the obvious dust cover cap over the stem.
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
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charlie
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Post by charlie »

cheers anders 8)

there appears to be one or two discrepancies with oscars description but for some one who hasnt done this job before, its a good introduction

the new plastic piece on top of the stem fits perfectly round the securing bolt that attaches the pinion valve to the lower steering column

this new design seems to ensure that the plastic cover of the pinion valve stays flat and moves in the same direction of the steering column

and its actually one piece from top of the stem to the round bit on the valve, and there are no other parts supplied

but as you said, the stem seems its self fits any way into the steering column!!

will have the car back on the road tomorrow and hopefully the heavy steering will be cured

ta

charlie
yes.....
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guiness white..........

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Heavy steering.

Post by Kevin B »

I would appreciate some advice on the following problem with my otherwise problem free BX, its done 10900 miles. Which is kind of related to this thread :wink:

It suffers from intermittant heavy steering on either lock, this can be at any time with the car being used on short or long journeys. Its not a FDV problem as this has already being replaced, with a reconditioned item.
The car is slow for the hydraulic oil pressure light to go out on initial start. Once the engine is running the low pressure light goes out completely

I have tried a s/h hyd pump from a car in a scrap yard so the pump is an unknown quantity, and the problem still persists which may mean this pump is also weak on output flow / pressure, using s/h bits is always a gamble !!.

I understand the symptoms of intermittant heavy steering on either lock is more suggestive of a pump problem, as this would mean more than one pinion valve seal will have failed, which is unlikely though still possible.

Pump replacement is preferable over pinion valve replacement. Any advice greatfully recieved. If needed I would not have a problem with fitting a reconditioned pump or pinion valve as I want to cure this problem on an otherwise excellent Bx 1769 Td Estate.

As an aside when replacing pinion valves its usually on a service exchange basis, when new are the rack and pinion components assembled as a matched pair. If so does replacement of the pinion valve with a recond item have any known issues ?

Thanks in anticipation.

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Post by AlanS »

Intermittent power steering can quite often come from the belt to the pump not being set tight enough.
These things really have to be tight, way beyond the tightness normally associated with a fan/alternator belt.
Another common trick to is being sold the wrong belt.
The belt that is suited for this is an "A" section belt and not an "M" as is sometimes supplied.
The A has the belt wall travelling right down to the base of the V, whereas an M has only around half the depth in profile. The fact that it is intermittent is the main reason I'm opting for the belt as the possible cause, otherwise I'd be inclined to wonder about the pump.
My suggestion would be to do the belt check first and if it looks OK, then drain the LHM and run a dose of Hydraflush through it for a couple of thousand miles and see what that does for it before you start doing too much troubleshooting as it could also be that the system is full of crap and may be choking off a filter somewhere in the system on occasions.


Alan S
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Post by Kevin B »

I too initially suspected the pump belt, but I recently replaced the pump drive belt with a GSF item, when I did the pump swap. The belt is tight and in good condition.

The system has being hydraflushed prior to this problem occuring, all hydraulic tank filter gauzes cleaned in petrol. The system was then refilled with new LHM fluid, and the dead ends of the hydraulic system (brake calipers) were bled out.

Hence I still think it is either a Pump or Pinion valve problem.

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Post by jeremy »

Pump - operation of power steering is intermittent - which suggests that the pump can't keep up rather than the valve in the pinion is leaking.

PAS requires a large volume of high pressure LHM - if you look in Haynes you will see that it is the highest pressure of the 3 systems - steering, suspension and brakes. It is also tapped off long before the safety valve so this is definitely not in the circuit - so does not provide an indication of the pressure.

Does it work better with brand new LHM?

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Post by Kevin B »

As I hydraflushed the system and replaced with fresh LHM prior to this problem I cannot say if it made any difference.

From my limited understanding the Hydraulic system works like so:

The hyd pump by its very nature is positive displacement, and when not in demand sends excess LHM through the pinion valve back to the reservior, when your steering straight ahead. Only when you turn the steering wheel does the pinion valve demand hydraulic pressure.
This puts a sudden demand on the pump, which if it is weak it cannot cope with.

Once the rest of the system is charged it demands relatively little LHM by comparison to the power steering, but on start up it would require a signficant quantity of LHM to initially raise the suspension. Hence the symtoms I have.

This suggests I in all likelyhood have replaced a suspect pump with another suspect pump :x

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cauchoiskev
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Post by cauchoiskev »

Kevin B wrote: The system has being hydraflushed prior to this problem occuring
That's interesting. How long was it after hydraflushing that the intermittent steering started ?

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DLM
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Post by DLM »

As I hydraflushed the system and replaced with fresh LHM prior to this problem I cannot say if it made any difference.
This is interesting. I have recently hydraflushed someone else's BX which was suffering from intermittently heavy steering (particularly on right lock). This was aimed to be the first and easiest step in that rather long list of remedial actions for a BX with heavy steering. Next in line was intended to be flo-dis, as I have a spare removed from a scrapper which had very light steering. Failing that, it was pump, then onto pinion valve etc.

At the moment, with hydraflush still in place, the symptoms have disappeared, though I appreciate this may change when the system's been refilled with LHM.
Occasionally constrained by geography. When not driving, can rely on ferry, two wheels and musclepower when a couple of miles as the crow flies would become a round-road-trip ten times the distance.

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charlie
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Post by charlie »

kevin b wrote:The hyd pump by its very nature is positive displacement, and when not in demand sends excess LHM through the pinion valve back to the reservior,
think the job of sending and controlling lhm down to the pinion valve is the work of the flow divertor, see rob smiths index

http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/s ... Pinion.pdf

in the beginning my steering was intermittent but in time disappeared completely except for the occasional 1 second burst as i cornered

i tried all sorts
belt was replaced and very tight
hydraflushed with limited success, it was ok for a bit but back on lhm it soon disappeared.
then tried flushing it again with no effect what so ever
i reconditioned the fdv then replaced it, wasnt sure it was me!!!
put a new pump in and still no change

but now with a new pinion valve in steering is nice and light!!!!!!!!!

i did chat with pleaides and they said if the steering is heavier on one side then another then this points to the pinion valve, for more info http://www.citroen-hydraulics.com/powersteering.htm

also if the heavy steering disappears when the engine warms up then its the pump http://www.citroen-hydraulics.com/hydpump.htm

apart from the oblivious external leaks/faults on any of the parts then, as DLM, suggests this is the order of work to follow

but a faulty pinion valve although last on this list can be, and probably is, overlooked for the fault in the first place

trick (luck??) is being able to diagnose this in the first place

hope this helps

charlie :roll:
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guiness white..........

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Post by DLM »

Hope it isn't the pinion valve on the car I'm trying to fix - I've done most of the rest on previous BXs (though only a flo-dis swap, not overhaul). Is the problem now fixed, Charlie?
Occasionally constrained by geography. When not driving, can rely on ferry, two wheels and musclepower when a couple of miles as the crow flies would become a round-road-trip ten times the distance.

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charlie
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Post by charlie »

hi stranger :wink:

and thats a big YES!!!

:D :D :D :D

and it seems 10 times better then what i remember, but with all those new parts in it i would hope so :roll:

i heard horror stories about changing the pinion but in truth it wasnt that bad, overall think id describe it as fiddly!!

using oscars instructions as a guide is good but id add

you dont need to take all the exhaust off, just uncouple it from the manifold

dont have to touch the handbrake cable at all

dnot really have to remove the wheels either

the spring and it seal holds back grease and not lhm, oscars valve must of been leaking into here

and of course no scribing of the pinion itself

i also chatted to european motors down here in cardiff, who wanted £500 to do this job :x

and they agreed with the order of work, which shows, in there experience, that pinion failure is the last thing to blame in heavy steering

but maybe this failure is not, statisically, that far behind the others

and for those braver then me dave, you can recon the valve for a fraction of the price!!!!!!!!!!!!

charlie
yes.....
the colour is....
guiness white..........