Towing...

TheBig-D · Post by **TheBig-D** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:33 pm

What's the max weight my 1992 1.9TDG will pull with ease....

Would love to get into offroad and would need to tow a Trailer & a small 4x4 ie... Suzuki sj..

Would my BX be up to it?

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:41 pm

In a word, No.

The BX is not a particularly great towcar. Essentially it's too light, especially at the back. The estates are slightly better, but still not a good towcar. Theoretically it should be able to tow a tonne, but I know I wouldn't want to.

A N/A diesel will be particularly bad too, as they are marginally underpowered anyway. Put a flatbed trailer and vehicle on the back, and it simply won't move.

I've towed a fairly large range of trailers with an even greater range of towcars, and using a BX as a towcar isn't an arrangement I want to do again any time soon. Shame really.

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:22 pm

Sadly I have to agree, towing is not the BX's forte. I'm unsure why, as the GSA tows beautifully (although gets about 20mpg in the process) but to tow something sizable a CX is the only tool

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:14 am

DavidRutherford wrote: The BX is not a particularly great towcar. Essentially it's too light

Not disagreeing but do you not find it strange that such a very high percentage of BX's were fitted with towbars David?

Terry Brooks · Post by **Terry Brooks** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:24 am

I've never had any probs with my 6cwt trailer tent or my double 'bike trailer +2 "off-road" bikes ..............I dunno about a Suzi 4x4 though .............methinks thats pushing it a little bit too far ...........it'll prob'ly weigh a lot more than a small caravan.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:36 am

Way2go wrote:
DavidRutherford wrote: The BX is not a particularly great towcar. Essentially it's too light
Not disagreeing but do you not find it strange that such a very high percentage of BX's were fitted with towbars David?

Depends entirely on what you're planning to tow.

Given that the BX was such a popular small/medium family hatchback car, I suspect the majority of these towbars were fitted to tow small box trailers, or possibly some of the lighter-weight (800kg) caravans. A BX will cope reasonably well with that arrangement.

There is of course also the fact that many BX will now have towbars fitted to them, as owners of older cars seem to use them in a more practical manner, and hence fit things like towbars. Also, they won't get removed when the car is sold (as many do at dealers)

What I'm referring to of course is somewhat more heavy-duty towing. Flatbed car transporter trailers weigh 600kg at the very least, and even the lightest vehicle weighs 800kg. That's 1400kg to tow. A BX simply won't cope with that in the same way that a 405 estate will, or a CX Safari will. Even if you have one of the more powerful BX for actually making the weight move, that's not the crucial issue. The back end of a BX squirms and drifts an awful lot when towing, which feels awful and doesn't give you any confidence at all. Imagine driving with both rear tyres at 8psi... that's what it feels like when you tow something heavy with a BX.

Case in point is my panel van. 75hp gross means that it's not very quick even on it's own, but it's one of the most capable towing vehicles I've ever used. Better than a Range-Rover.

A BX is a fabulous car. Lightweight, fuel economic etc, but it's no towcar. I'd say it was built for comfort, not solidity.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:02 am

DavidRutherford wrote: A BX is a fabulous car. Lightweight, fuel economic etc, but it's no towcar. I'd say it was built for comfort, not solidity.

Heavy towing is certainly out but I have towed a 14ft caravan with a BX GTi manual and that was reasonable. I did always take care of the nose weight of the caravan though to be correct so that probably makes some difference.
Also had the 405 SRi but not towed with that, comfort better in the BX imho but strangely the 405 gave better mpg under normal motoring.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:48 am

Way2go wrote:strangely the 405 gave better mpg under normal motoring.

If it was a saloon, that wouldn't surprise me as the 405 has a better Cd than the BX. Plus I think the tune was slightly different for the 405 1.9i engine compared to the BX 1.9i. I'll bet the BX was the faster car off the line though.

Getting back somewhere near the original question, although I wouldn't want to get very near it, I believe the towing limit for any BX other than the 14 is 1100kg. Unlike on other cars where I'd take that as a starting point, and possibly tow up to double that, I'd regard it as an absolute limit on the BX.

Way2go · Post by **Way2go** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:30 am

DavidRutherford wrote:I'll bet the BX was the faster car off the line though

Definitely, the Sri was OK but the BX GTi put's more of a smile on your face!

CaM · Post by **CaM** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:20 am

I towed around 800kg with mine in the weekend. went non stop 400km.
cruised on relatively flat road at whatever speed I wanted (up to around 80mph

) and was good on hills considering I was going gingerly as it was a 30 degree day in a car which I had no idea what the temperature was doing.
handled interestingly when the trailer was pushing a little going into corners, even though I had a mini engine and gearbox, and a whole heap of other gear in the boot, and the trailer was a tandem axle setup with brakes. definitely weird to tow decent weights with.
that said - most comfortable car I've ever towed with. economy dropped to average 12l/100km which wasn't bad considering

cavmad · Post by **cavmad** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:22 am

Sounds like you've had very good advice there. Anyone know the weight of an SJ? I suppose you could get a small lightweight trailer but still wouldn't really fancy towing,especially as mentioned with an n/a BX diesel, based on what the the more learned have writen above. Potentially daft question so excuse me, but could you not drive the SJ to the off roading venue(s) and then home again afterwards? I do with my Frontera and it's a great laugh.

Post by **mat_fenwick** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:45 am

I have to agree with the above, from personal experience. Although my Dad always used to say his BX (DTR Turbo) was a great tow car for his 1000kg caravan, I found mine worryingly unstable when towing a large car trailer fully loaded.
We were moving house at the time - a work colleague had offered to tow a borrowed car trailer (with his 4x4) with about 1100kg of my project car on the back. The only thing was he backed out at the last minute, leaving me in the lurch and with no alternative but to try it myself. Realistic safe speed was 40mph, any faster than that and a weave developed. I had to wait till the middle of the night so the roads were empty.
With hindsight a very stupid thing to do.

DavidRutherford · Post by **DavidRutherford** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:36 pm

Marty wrote:The plod go on a totally different chart for matching towing weights so be a careful not to fall foul to them! They work on 80% of the cars kerbweight as being the maximum you can tow, wheras once upon a time it was always 100% and the recommended maximum was 80% - rising with experience to 100% - some landrovers are rated at more than 100%

Significantly more than 100% actually. Any Series landrover, Discovery or Range Rover is rated at 3.5 tonnes, and even that is limited only by the fact that a standard tow hitch is only rated at 3.5 tonnes. With close-coupled brakes they can do 4 tonnes easily, and up to 6 tonnes if you know what you're doing.

Why? Because manufacturers maximum towing capacities are based on the most weight that the car can pull up a 1-in-8 hill in its lowest gear.... which means of course that anything with a low-range gearbox can tow loads more than something that only has a conventional gearbox. Nothing to do with stability, and nothing to do with the kerb weight of the vehicle... it's all based on pulling-power.

As for the legality, that boils down to what your licence will allow. It's been a while since I read up on it, but certainly I know that putting a 2-tonne trailer on the back of a car isn't unlawful. Granted, it's not recommended, but it's not against the law. The key is that it's manufacturer RECOMMENDED towing weights. If you know your route, and can avoid hills (both up and down) then you can easily get away with more than the recommended, provided the vehicle is stable enough.

Very likely to get you pulled over though, and given a good going over.

citroen7 · Post by **citroen7** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:39 pm

i regually used to tow up too 1500kgs with the meteor and while it wasnt quick it did ok,I have just come back from weighing in an old boiler (not the missus!!) that was 960kgs plus the trailer but that was on the back of the pug405 estate iam sure it will be even better when i fix the breaks on the trailer

Just looked at the docket total weight of car and trailer 1680kgs may have to be carefull in future!

Vanny · Post by **Vanny** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:40 pm

remember now that the BX was the Caravan Clubs tow car of the year for FIVE years running, and the reason my dad (and thus I ) have ever even seen the inside of a BX!

I tow practically once a week (usually more) and have towed all kinds of strange things (only have to check out the BX Project website to see the proof), quite honestly the BX can tow just about anything so long as you have more than half a clue what your doing! And assuming you have a decent Citroen towbar, and BX in good condition (ie not a rotted out rear end) they will tow well in a huge range of situations!

I agree with Davids sentiments that a BX is not the best car for towing long distance at decent speeds (ie around 50mph) due to its light weight, but i've hooned around with a trailer on a race track (at speeds of +80mph) without much problem AND been able to stop quite rapidly in a striaght line, though there is a deffinate feeling of being pushed by the trailer to a slow speed rather than bringing the whole train down to speed. Oh i might add this was a HUGE trailer designined to take a huge Massey Ferguson 4x4 tractor and did it's self weigh nearly a tonne!

Towing light stuff is what the BX is good at, especially when combined with a very full boot, but so long as you know what your doing its capable of doing a huge amount more (and i can say that having got it VERY wrong more than once!). I think i record for towing is around 4.5 tonne on a private road, at low speed with the TD engine, and i would NOT want to try doing that on road! just felt very very wrong in so many ways.

Must ask though, do you have a license to tow anythin more than 750kg? if you have a childs license (post January 1997) then likely hood is you cant tow much more than the weight of a push bike