TD Water pump and coolant liquid?

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TB2
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TD Water pump and coolant liquid?

Post by TB2 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:41 am

As I have posted a few weeks or months ago I'm still not finished servicing my BX ;) I was asking around for prices in local shops and garages and they wanted ridiculous amounts of cash for a full service (around 570 Euros just for changing the belt), or even for the parts. The lowest offer I got from A.T.U. was 280 Euros just for the parts. But now I have bought all the neccessary parts off ebay. Tensioner bracket, rollers, timing belt, cambelt, HP belt, water pump, diesel filter and oil filter. All for 145 Euros, which is a fair price I think.
But I was still lacking engine oil and coolant, so I went to that local A.T.U. again and spent another 40 Euros on oil, and another 50 Euros on engine coolant. Incredibly expensive I think. From now on, I will buy all this stuff on ebay.

Anyways, the guy was asking me which type of engine coolant I needed, but I didn't know. The repair manual doesn't say something about a "type" and he told me that there are two different types (green or purple). He couldn't find the type needed for the BX, so he just gave me this expensive purple "BASF Glysantin® Alu Protect/G30" stuff:

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Any idea if it's the right one? What difference does it even make? I'll definetly buy a 20l canister online next time instead of buying 5 bottles of this expensive stuff.

And another question: I think all the parts I bought are fine though the water pump looks a bit different. I think/hope that all the holes and its shape are the same, but the old pump definetly lacks this "shield" on the side of the gear:

(click to enlarge)
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The old one:
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Has anyone used this pump before? it's from "qap - quality auto parts". It would be a real pain to drain the cooling system just to find out the pump doesn't fit.

Any opinions on the coolant liquid or the pump?
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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mat_fenwick
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Post by mat_fenwick » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:18 pm

Both the pumps should fit, but I reckon the pump you have is the one for a Xantia engine, where the timing covers are slightly different. (They are bolted on and have a section cut out to match the shield on the pump).

However, there may well also be BX engines with this timing cover arrangement.

It should be possible to modify (i.e. cut) the timing cover to match your pump, but I would try and get the right one if you can.
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mnde
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Post by mnde » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:31 pm

With regard to coolant, this is what you need ideally... Most important is its anti-corrosion properties. But here is a spec sheet so you can compare with the coolant you've been sold:

http://www.total.mu/os/content/NT000352B2.pdf

It's a cobalt blue colour and you can get it in 1L and 4L bottles - although I've only found 1L bottles in Total service stations.

Cheers,

Mark.
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate
1997 Renault Mégane RT 1.4e
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - gone to Scotland

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:20 pm

Mat, thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll just use this pump and if it doesn't fit I will eighter check if I could flex off the metal shield or if I can modify the plastic in an non-destructive way ;)

Mark, I think the one I have is okay. It actually says "Recommended for aluminium engines" on some sites on the internet, and I think diesel engines are always made of steel aren't they? I couldn't find the pH specs for the liquid I got. I think I'll nevertheless check back with the shop and get something else. Also, I think I bought to much because I can actually mix it with distilled water 50/50.
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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Post by AndersDK » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:34 pm

Whats wrong with standard antifreeze ?
Using 1:2 with water ?
The "blue" or "red" type foud in any supermarket.
Some even have the later type BIO antifreeze - supposedly environment friendly.
I mean - UK has never been - and will never be - exposed to arctic climates ???
Or are there new longterm forecasts ????

I mean : BMW overs can go get the "genuaaaine" BMW coolant, The genuaaine" BMW car polish, the genius BMW engine oil, the genie BMW ...

But do we HAVE to be chavs driving BX'es ...
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
dead cars : '89white 16RS - '89antrasitTRDturboEst - '90white19triBreak

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:05 pm

I just don't want to pour corrosive stuff into my engine just because I picked the "wrong" fluid. But anyways, I'll first have to change the waterpump etc.
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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DLM
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Post by DLM » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:08 pm

I mean : BMW overs can go get the "genuaaaine" BMW coolant, The genuaaine" BMW car polish, the genius BMW engine oil, the genie BMW ...
Three cheers for that, Anders: oil is to lubricate, antifreeze is to lower freezing point and protect from corrosion, etc.

Just about the only specialist fluid for the BX is LHM, which has been produced by a lot of manufacturers. The only reasons I can see for going totally "Total" are:

(1) Availability: for example, I can't seem to find any other maker who does the BX grade of gearbox oil any more

(2) Price where applicable: in a French supermarket last month I saw 5 litres of Total 15w40 oil at 14 Euros. That price is comparable to the very cheapest oil at that grade in the UK - which is perfectly OK so long as it meets spec.

A fancy container or label with unfancy contents is the marketing man's dream - greater profit. The idea of generic products in the modern automotive world is taking a beating.
Relying on two wheels and musclepower since the last BX (or any car) had to go.

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:58 pm

Well, the old cooling liquid I drained had a dark brown color at times and some of it was clear like water. I don't know if the previous owner even used an additive or just water. Also, the interiour of the engine where the water pump is fitted looked a bit rusty. Not badly rusted but a bit.

Anyways, I switched the pumps and I was amazed at how different the new one looked. It actually seemes to be a lot cheaper and simpler than the old one. I guess the new one does the job as well and it might even be less prone to damage as the fins are thicker, but it really looks a bit odd when compared to the old one side by side:

Image

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Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:57 am

Today I'm doing the oil change, so I started the engine and let it run for a few minutes. I constantly checked the heat gauge and noise/movement of the engine. I think it is overheating. After about 8 minutes the heat gauge was already touching the red mark, so I turned off the engine and got on with the oil change. Removed the bleed screw and drained the oil. Came out pretty thin. The thermostat housing got pretty hot to the touch, but it didn't feel alarming.

I don't know what could be causing this. I changed the coolant liquid last week and at that time I felt like I had drained more liquid than what I've put in afterwards. The expansion bottle is half full and it's staying like that. Is it possible that there's no water around the water pump yet, so that the liquid isn't flowing through the system? When refilling the cooling system, I topped up the expansions bottle and the radiator until it was full. Are there any other places where I could pour in some coolant?
I also added around 300ml of that engine flush stuff someone suggested in here before draining the oil. Could it be that it was causing the engine to overheat?

And I have another embarrassing question: Where the oil dip stick is, there's this cap with the two metal clamps. That is the one where I'm supposed to fill in the oil (and the engine flush) right? But why are there there a variety of hoses going away or to it from the turbo grill? And that pipe with the green line and "Hutchinson" written on it is going from the turbo grill to the air filter and below that it's going to the oil filler cap. Why? I find that confusing. Is it just so that air can come in and go out of those engine parts to compensate for the oil expanding and contracting with rising and falling heat?
When I turned off the engine and removed the drain plug below, I also opened up the oil dip stick cap to give it more air and bleed better and there was a hint of steam coming out of it. Is that normal?

Image
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:08 pm

Also, why is that thing with the dip stick in it on the coolant system diagram mat fenwick posted in another thread ? Did I fill in the engine flush in the wrong place and now it's in the cooling system?! :shock: Isn't that dip stick hose the one for the oil? If not, why is the dip stick in there and why does it show the oil level? This car is weird. Too many pipes and hoses.

Image
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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TB2
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Post by TB2 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:14 pm

Or actually: It may be not overheating after all - It's just me being totally paranoid and a freakin' coward :oops:

Didn't have a spare washer and didn't want to wait until tomorrow. Filled up the engine with fresh oil, replaced the oil filter, removed the axle stands, did some citraerobics and took it for a drive up and down the street...

Seems to be running well!
Carl

1989 TRD "Entreprise" Turbo Diesel
1989 16 Valve
---
Parts needed:
- One black leather headrest.
- FDV overhaul kit (95.669.034)
Please contact me through PN if you have any of this.

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Post by jeremy » Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:37 pm

No dipstick on a TD COOLING system. The correct coolant level is about 1/2 way up the header tank. If you look down the hole the plastic bar should be level with the top of the coolant. If you can't see the bar and the coolant is about 1/2 way up the tank you're OK.

Too much coolant will be blown out. Too little should put the warning light on.

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Post by AndersDK » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:29 am

jeremy wrote:Too much coolant will be blown out.
Which then is used to "auto-select" the correct level :
Brim it, then after an engine warm up cycle the level will be correct :wink:
C U / Anders - '90red16riBreak - '91GrisDolment16meteor - Project'88red19trsBreak
dead cars : '89white 16RS - '89antrasitTRDturboEst - '90white19triBreak

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Post by Way2go » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:39 am

jeremy wrote:No dipstick on a TD COOLING system.
Never seen one of the pictured radiator 'dipsticks' in any of my GTi Petrols either. Suspect it must relate to Mk1 radiators. :?
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Post by DavidRutherford » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:13 am

With regard to the water pump you have there.

As Mat mentioned, it's not the correct one for your engine. That is the pump for a later XUD engine with the bolt-on covers. The clip-on cover engine (as you have) needs a water pump without that massive flange down one side.

Mechanically it will fit and work fine, but you won't be able to get your timing belt covers back on properly. I have in the past cut the flange off one of these water pumps to allow it to be used in an early engine, but it's a bit of a bodge, and the correct pump should be roughly the same price.
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