Has anyone

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kiwi
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Has anyone

Post by kiwi »

Broken a spark plug and dropped bits into the cylinder? If so what damage could it cause and solutions you came up with to remove the bits?
Hypothetical question.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Wait till it happens and then I'm sure human ingenuity will kick in!
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Vanny
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Post by Vanny »

dropped bits of which part of the spark plug, theres a lot of different materials!
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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica »

Well as for any possible damage! I can't help but think that it will leave scores on the inside of the cylinder or damage a piston ring. Could get blown out the exhaust valve but could get jammed in it too..

I recall fitting tin foil over the inlet manifold of an old CX once while the carb was off, for some unknown reason I cranked the engine half a rev only for POP! the tinfoil got sucked into the manifold...

what an idiot :roll:
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
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Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'
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kermit the frog
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Post by kermit the frog »

solution to hypothetical question.

DO NOT TURN ENGINE OVER.
DISCONNECT BATTERY[/b].( so you cant turn engine over)

Using an old screwdriver put some grease on the tip and pick up any bits still around the broken spark plug that have not fallen into the cylinder.
Using an easyout or similar extractor used for removing broken studs.
Remove the metal part of the plug
Put a small peice of cloth on the end of a piece of welding wire (MIG wire would be ideal) cover this with grease and pass it down through the spark plug hole push it around inside the cylinder to try to collect any parts that may have fallen in.
Check the parts you have found and see if they seem to add up to a complete spark plug.
If not you can work out what if anything is still inside the cylinder.
If the parts you think are still in the engine are metallic try a small magnet

(if you are 100% sure that you have removed all bits)
remove the other spark plugs reconnect the battery spray some penetrating oil down the spark plug holes and crank the engine over.

Fit new spark plugs with a little copper grease on the threads to prevent a reoccurance
reconnect HT leads and away you go job done

Regards Kermit :) :)
ALAN S an oracle of knowledge sadly missed by us all RIP Mate
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch »

Pull the plugs out and turn it over. Stand back.

Done. Next? :lol:
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docchevron
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Post by docchevron »

hhmm, so making an attachment with a threaded end that screws into a spark plug thread and is a press fit on the end of an industrial vacuum cleaner is a bit OTT then?
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kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Ok time to tell you!

I brought a BX with this very problem at worse its plenty of parts for my own BX being a 19TRS.

Taking note what you guys have said and most notably Docs idea of a vacuum Cleaner. I have done some "tests" on the old engine block of the 16RS :wink: Broke a plug poured the bits in a cylinder and tried to get the bits. Well the Vacuum idea works if I can turn the engine manually to close the Exhaust valves and create a negative pressure (suck) in the cylinder.

Of course this is all well and good in theory on an Old engine block with easy access and no Exhaust downpipe attached. So next week going to try the real thing! If succesful I will have another BX :lol:
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
mountainmanUK

Post by mountainmanUK »

Just a thought on the "vacuum cleaner" idea.....

How about making up a flexible rubber extension from an old piece of rubber piping, just narrow enough to fit inside the plug hole? It could be 'adapted' to fit onto the end of the vacuum cleaner pipe using gaffer tape etc.
If this worked, it would negate the need to have the valves closed for the 'suck' effect. The rubber pipe could be moved around inside the cylinder, to hoover up any bits off the piston crown. :idea:

Well....it might work!

Dave
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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica »

Vacuum cleaner idea is darn good but it will only effectively work if you have one of the valves in the cylinder open to allow the flow of air in as the suction is running. Hose thru plug hole, and turned so that inlet valve is open to allow air to suck in through it so that the low air pressure of the suction has enough of a differential from the air in the cylinder (that will be lower than atmosphere due to the very small volume in the cylinder with air being sucked out faster than it's blown back in by the atmosphere around the hose and through the plug hole). If the valve remained closed to do this the air pressure in the cylinder would very quickly reduce and wouldn't be very different to the suction and so the 'grip' of the suction could be too low until it reached the plug hole again but it's the lifting stage prior to that that is critical so it'll remain sucked onto the hose while taking knocks from the plug hole surface a or wobble of the hose pulling out.
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'
kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Guys already had a practice run on a disconected engine block so reckon this will work and got the angles covered. My fingers are just crossed the previous owners attempts to remove didnt get anything stuck in the valves at which point its all over.
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
M

Post by M »

Did it once on this:
Image
Put new plug in, turned it over - made clattering noise fro a bit, then was OK - drove another 20K miles before being sold on.

I assume the ceramic buried itself in the piston crown.

Frankly though I hated the car at the time and wanted an excuse to get a bank loan and buy this:
Image
kiwi
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Post by kiwi »

Ok all good in theory but this is what I am looking for inside this engine apparently. And I am also unsure what Plug to be looking into as well :oops:

Yea I know I should have asked which plug the bits were dropped into :roll:

Image

Well Magnet wont work and it looks like the whole metal core is inside the cylinder. Tried recreating the scenario with the other BX engine I have and well so far no luck retrieving the metel bit.

What a mission huh?
1991 BX19 TZS 04/01/91 (Deceased)
1990 BX19 TRS 27/10/89 (Reborn)
1992 BX19 TXD (Ex UK - K 744 SDF) 15/06/92
1990 BX19 TZS Auto 06/11/1989
1992 BX TZD Turbo Estate (Ex UK) 1/07/91
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