Car won't start

BX Tech talk
Post Reply
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Car won't start

Post by MULLEY »

Hmmm, tried jump starting the car yesterday after not having used her for 2wks. The central locking didnt operate so battery was flat. The dash lights came on, interior light & the glow plug relay made the usual dull thud sound when the jump leads were connected up. But when turning the ignition key, the engine did turn but very slowly & as though there was no real juice getting to the right parts.

Any ideas on what i might need to check, it might be that the battery has got a duff cell, but rather than messing about battery swapping there might be something simpler?

Its my 19TXD by the way.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
CitroXim
Sir Jim of the Databases
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Newport Pagnell
x 2
Contact:

Post by CitroXim »

Might be just a bad earth Mulley. The one down on the gearbox is always a favourite.
Jim

'98 Xantia 1.9TD in Red - Gabriel the Bus...
'96 Xantia Activa in Red - My favourite toy...
'07 Pug 207 in Blue - The Deathtrap...
'15 Giant Defy Bike in Blue - Daily rider...
'16 Giant TCR Bike in Black/Lime Green - Fine weather only...
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Hi Jim,

can you describe whereabouts it is please? I've had a look at Haynes & couldnt find any picture of what & where i'm supposed to be looking for.

Cheers
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
User avatar
demag
BXpert
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: West Midlands
x 1

Post by demag »

Are the battery terminals tight? Might be worth undoing them and give everything a clean up with wire brush/emery paper. Its possible for the posts to oxidise and give a bad contact. Was the battery ok when last used?
Dave.

2004 C5 Exclusive Estate 2.2hdi automatic.
1990 Bx TGS automatic.
CitroXim
Sir Jim of the Databases
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:08 pm
Location: Newport Pagnell
x 2
Contact:

Post by CitroXim »

MULLEY wrote: can you describe whereabouts it is please?
If you follow the thick -ve (earth) lead from the battery terminal it will eventually end up bolted to the gearbox housing. Off times it's bolted direct to a threaded boss on the top of the 'box in the vicinity of the top selector arm and at other times it's bolted to the side of the PAS pump cradle on cars equipped with the cam driven PAS pump.
Jim

'98 Xantia 1.9TD in Red - Gabriel the Bus...
'96 Xantia Activa in Red - My favourite toy...
'07 Pug 207 in Blue - The Deathtrap...
'15 Giant Defy Bike in Blue - Daily rider...
'16 Giant TCR Bike in Black/Lime Green - Fine weather only...
jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

Car is negative earth - so follow the negative battery lead - which in fact probably goes to the engine or gearbox. Somewhere there should be another lead linking the power unit to the body. For starting purposes the earth to the engine is probably enough. You can check it by connecting the NEGATIVE jump lead to the engine itself - thus bypassing the lead and its connections.

If the car battery is really flat - you won't start the car with jump leads straight away. Connect up the leads and run the supply vehicle at a fast idle for about 10 minutes to get some charge in the vehicles battery - then with the supply vehicle still running fast try and start your car. If the motor is still slow - leave it a bit longer to charge.

You'll find the supply vehicle's revs drop quite a bit with the additional battery load - this is what should happen.

If you're using puny cheapo jump leads - forget it altogether.

Better to remove your car battery and charge it for the appropriate time (ie overnight on a 5 or more amp charger) then re-fit it and try again.

Self contained Jump starts won't be enough if the vehicle battery is flat. (unless they're the huge commercial vehicle type)
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Deemag, as far as i'm aware they are tight, i'll double check. Battery seemed fine before the layup. If the posts oxidise, dont they go a whiteish colour? If so, then it cant be that as theres no white residue.

Jim, i'll have a gander tomorrow when there's some light. I presume the contact area just needs a clean-up to sort the earthing issue?

Cheers guys, will report back tomorrow on whether its solved....
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
User avatar
Vanny
Merseyside resident
Posts: 3581
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 11:48 pm
Location: BXProject
My Cars: BX 16v Ph2 - Jazz
BX 16v Ph2 - XPO
x 79
Contact:

Post by Vanny »

doesn't sound like the earth, sounds like a stuffed battery. Buy a new one. THeres clearly not enough current as the batterys sucking it up.
User avatar
mnde
Meteor Man
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: Aldershot, Hants
My Cars: 2007 Citroen Xsara Picasso 1.6 16V VTX
1982 Citroen GSA Spécial Estate - gone to a new home
1991 Citroen BX16 TGS Meteor - still out there somewhere!

Post by mnde »

There's a good remedy for this problem - always remember to unhook the battery if you're going to lay up the car for a couple of weeks. I tend to forget and it's really annoying to get in the car, turn the key and -click- wuh- wuuuuh- wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur :oops:

That reminds me I wanted to look and see if there was a switch I could buy to mount on the battery so you can quickly disconnect it from the circuit without having to touch the leads...

Cheers,

Mark.
mike st gilles
BXpert
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:23 pm
Location: Kent

Post by mike st gilles »

Another way to stop this happening is to use one of those solar type trickle chargers (as long as the car's in the open that is). I use one of these in France on my BX that lives there...... Car always fires straight up even when left for 4 months.
You don't even have to leave it on the outside of the car as it seems to charge quite well enough sitting on the top of the dash plugged into the cigar lighter (tbh you could put the other set of leads that come with it which have croc clips attached and lead it straight on to the battery).
I think they're about a tenner from most good acc shops (and some bad ones as well lol)
This always assumes that the battery is a good one in the first place....
Mike
Garlic Bread 'its the future'.
90 BX TZD Auto lives in France. 93 BX TXD Estate having had Ken Newbolds magic wand waved over it. 98' Honda Deauville NTV650.. '86 Fiat Ducato Swift Kontiki Camper
User avatar
jonathan_dyane
BXpert
Posts: 975
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:15 pm
Location: Liverpool

Post by jonathan_dyane »

mnde wrote:
That reminds me I wanted to look and see if there was a switch I could buy to mount on the battery so you can quickly disconnect it from the circuit without having to touch the leads...

Cheers,

Mark.
This is just the thing you're looking for. Obviously you would want to fit it without the fusible link...
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Thanks for the help on this chaps, i changed the battery from one of my other cars & it starts fine. I'll try charging the offending battery up to see if its salvageable.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

Do you have a radio in the car? If so does it turn off when the key is removed?

BX ones generally don't as they were built when cassette tapes would tangle if a player was stopped and started - as when starting the car.

This arrangement is fine if the radio has a proper mechanical on/off switch - ie one that goes click.

More modern units tend to have electronic switches - which are fine but they leave the unit taking a substantial standby current. This is no problem if the vehicle wiring disconnects the unit when the key is removed (or in the off position) but as the BX is wired without this position they will continue to draw this current and flatten the battery after a few days.

Cure: - a separate on/off master switch is probably the easiest - or remove the power (not memory) fuse, or re-wire to a supply switched by the key - with a relay?
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Post by MULLEY »

Yup, it was the cd player that ran the battery down, its permanetly on standby, quite irritating. And of course i cant remember the bleedin code to get any tunes out of it. The code is on the top-plate of the unit, but i couldnt get it out, so i'll have to get my friend help.

I'm sure i've seen a device that fits onto the battery which auto cuts off the power if the battery voltage falls below a certain level. However, i think the easiest approach of disconnecting the battery is the easiest & the cheapest.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
jeremy
Over 2k
Posts: 2112
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:58 am
Location: Hampshire UK

Post by jeremy »

Your CD player needs 2 power supplies - 1 for its memory and the other for power.

Find the power lead and extend it and fit an on/off switch on the console between the seats or some where else convenient like above the heater controls

I was going to do this for my CD player - till the one in my wife's ZX went wrong. She's now got the CD player and I've got the old radio/cassette back in the BX. Still it does have long wave so I can listen to the cricket.
Post Reply