Replacement engines

[Jaro]

Hi all
I'm just checking now mainly because my engine is smoking a bit and I like to be forewarned, but where do you get a reconditioned engine from and what's the kind of price you'd play, are these engine commonly sold by engine re-builders?
Mines a 1.4 litre on a 1989 14TE. (and I'm in France) I would have preferred that if I was going to have to replace' it then it would be for a bigger engine but I'm told that's not a economic possibility

Or do you get one from a breakers, I've been offered one with 51,000kms on it for 382 euros and 72 euros delivery.
Maybe buying an old complete car for a couple of hundred Euro ? but is it feasible to re-con an older engine yourself? and is there any cost saving in doing so?

[jeremy]

Your engine has wet liners - which means that the piston runs in a removable cylinder - and rather than re-boring your engine you replace the piston and its liner.

So rebuilding your engine isn't that difficult - you get new pistons and liners and take the crank to an engine specialist who will regrind it and supply the necessary bearing shells. It may well be that on examination the crank hasn't worn much and just new bearing shells is all that is required.

How much the bits cost is something I can't help with especially as you are in France.

How much you're prepared to spend on your car and how long you intend to keep it are other relevant factors.

[Way2go]

Your engine has wet liners - which means that the piston runs in a removable cylinder - and rather than re-boring your engine you replace the piston and its liner.

Why replace the piston, surely you only need new rings?

Also as the liners are removable is it not cost effective to get these machined or is it there is insufficient 'meat' there? All you would then need is oversize rings as is usual after a re-bore on a solid block.

Never seen anything written on this with regard to the BX so just curious about the 'buying new' policy Jeremy.

[jeremy]

If only life were so simple.

To seal effectively rings must run in a round bore. Unfortunately cylinder bores wear oval - and a round ring doesn't fit properly. Bore the thing round again - and it works.

Liners are replaced rather than re-bored - as they're made of thin but good quality steel rather than general block casting metal. The re-conditioning industry probably doesn't have machines capable of boring wet liners anyway.

[DavidRutherford]

Given the ease which you can find TU engines in breakers yards, I wouldn't even consider reconditioning the existing engine. Buying the gasket set, the pistons/rings and liners will cost more than a good low-mileage engine, and is an awful lot less work.

Modern engines (from the 80's onwards) almost never get rebuilt. 60's engines were re-built all the time (and indeed still are for various reasons) but in 99.9% of cases these days, if an engine is worn out you bin it and buy one that isn't. In fact, in many cases if the engine is worn out you bin the entire car and buy one that isn't worn out. Cheaper, quicker, easier etc.

[DavidRutherford]

Also,

my engine is smoking a bit

What colour smoke, and when does it do it? Could be nothing more than valve stem seals gone a bit crusty, which is best ignored.

[Jaro]

hi
its just white smoke I think and its not all the time sometimes on starting sometimes on overrun, then sometimes I cannot detect any at all. My mate who sold it to me and if the number of old cars he owns is of any measure of competence, he is a genius, says that just replace the piston rings or put thicker oil in (what oil should it be ?) or best of all just live with it.

I was checking as to what you guys do when faced with with engine problems and the comment that mostly you replace from second hand stock rather than doing a rebuild, is very interesting.

I'd just assumed that recon engines were available and wanted to check the price. There are, as you would expect lots of BX's available for sale down here ranging in price from 5500 to 100 euros.
Incidentally if any of you have had problems looking at cars on Ebay.fr recently there is a get around which involves changing you language in IE to French -then you can view then again.

[DLM]

Given the ease which you can find TU engines in breakers yards

David has hit the nail on the head here. IF you can verify that the problem is a bad one - one that you can't live with, one that you can prove is not caused by anything else, and ultimately looks set to kill the car - I'd look for a secondhand 1.4 TU lump.

While there's a substantially larger population of BX14s in France than the UK, be aware that any before about 1988/9 will be fitted with the earlier PSA "suitcase" engine of the same capacity (1360cc) which is a very different beast (gears in sump, different driveshafts etc).

From 1989, there was a relatively short period that the 1.4 TU engine was fitted to BXs, before the ZX filled that 1.4 medium slot in the Citroen range. TUs were been fitted to Citroen AXs, ZXs, Peugeot 205s, 106s etc., but will be fuel-injected on cars after 1992 or thereabouts.

If it's worn valve-guide stems (which sounds possible), then you should smell burnt oil when the smoke appears, particularly if you're reversing with the windows open. If the engine produces smoke when engine braking on a hill, then this would also suggest valve stems strongly.

Alternatively, you could also look out for water loss over time or oil contamination with water, or check for engine breather blockage, particularly if the car is frequently used over short runs.

[Jaro]

sorry for stupid questions but how do I find what precise type of engine I've got, my car is a 1989 vintage

[TB2]

On the ones I've seen there's a small black plate attached to the engine with black on silver letters on it. See this for a list of all engines:

http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/engine/engine.php

Also, this should tell you the location of this plate on your engine:

http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/mai ... enance.php

[DavidRutherford]

sorry for stupid questions but how do I find what precise type of engine I've got, my car is a 1989 vintage

The engines look very different indeed. The suitcase engine leans back towards the bulkhead at an alarming angle, and has the carb ponked on the top. It also looks like there's no gearbox, as all the gearshafts are in the engine sump.

The TU engine however is much more conventional. Instantly recognisable by the large flat black camshaft cover, the fact that it is upright, and the fact that it has a normal "end on" separate gearbox.

[Jaro]

Thanks, yes mine is a tu engine - found the label -on mine its on the front of the block Rh side and says its a K1G type -there is a another label this one is fixed the actual block itself which reads 1F SIG 588469.

Looking for the label noticed that its leaking oil from the head gasket, which I guess accounts for the intermittent smoking from the exhaust?
I assume this means that I got to take the head off to replace the gasket, and maybe do some other bits while its off -valve stem seals, what else?

Thanks for all the help incidently

[DavidRutherford]

Noticed that its leaking oil from the head gasket,

Are you sure that's not just leakage from the cam cover running down? External oil leaks from the head gasket are fairly uncommon.

which I guess accounts for the intermittent smoking from the exhaust?

I doubt the two have anything to do with each other. External oil leaks and smoke from the exhaust can't really be related, although both might point to a high-ish mileage engine. (a useful indication if a car for sale has suspiciously low mileage on it)

Does the engine use much oil? If not, I'd just ignore it completely. If it's using more than a couple of litres between oil changes then it might be worth looking at, but if not (and I suspect it uses very little oil) then it will probably continue working just fine and outlive the body of the car.

[Jaro]

I'll check that again, it does use a bit of oil but overall the car is very good its done 180,000kms, but the bodywork is amazing, there is absolutely no rust anywhere - it looks quite strange ( its looks like a, dusty straight out of the showroom, car) rare one assumes to see in a nearly 20 year old car.

I might take some photos just to upset all those guys who have rust problems LOL