Making smoke

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jonathan_dyane
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Making smoke

Post by jonathan_dyane »

Well, I'm glad to report that I have just arrived back home without incident in my new TZD Turbo estate.

Really pleased with the thing generally, and aside from smoking like a stricken warship (it transpired that the 'do not touch' screw on the pump, aka 'touch this to generate smokescreens and completely screw up the fueling right across the rev range' screw has been interfered with; I shall have fun meddling with that in the morning before the 9.00 MOT...) it aquitted itself very well on the 400 mile trip home.

Other issues include:

Hateful aftermarket sunroof (no answer to this really...)

Some hydraulic issues; pump is noisy and regulator does not really click (pumping the brakes with the engine at idle results in no click, but instead eventually puts on STOP light, bliping the throttle then puts off light and results in half-hearted semi click.) Struts and spheres good however.

Dodgy front wheel bearing.

Body generally good, but tailgate is a bit damage and there is a hole in the front drivers side sill where something has dented it and lifted the underseal allowing the rot to set in. Superficial however. Back of sills looks ok, but will see what the MOT man's toffee hammer finds!

On the whole very pleased, and delighted to be behind the wheel of a BX again.
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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Philip Chidlow
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Post by Philip Chidlow »

Excellent - welcome back to BX ownership once more 8)
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

Thanks Philip :)

Pleased and somewhat stunned to report that it passed!

I disconnected the boost compensation pipe which got rid of most of the smoke, and is clearly what has been twiddled (along with, bizarrely, the anti-stall setting, clearly the fiddler in question took the random approach to their untutored meddling) and it scraped through the smoke test.

I realise that I must have been thinking about the Bosch pump last night with the adjuster screw, thankfully to adjust the main fuelling on the Lucas CAV one has to remove one of the front caps and tickle the innards with an allen key, which means that it would seem to have escaped being messed with...

The rust on the sill was not spotted (although I will weld that up tomorrow if I get the chance, it is only a small area) and the wheel bearing had no play so escaped with an advisory (job for this afternoon).

So now, following my cup of tea to reconnect the compensator pipe and back off it's setting; IIRC the adjuster is turned anti-clockwise for more smoke, which could well have been what caused the confusion which led to its current state...
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

It gets better! Incredibly, 2/3 of the smoking problem was a totally manky air filter which was black! A slight tweak of the boost compensator is still needed (it is ridiculously powerful at the moment, and driving tonight in darkness showed smoke still visible in following cars headlamps when going on boost).

It's so long since I drove a 17 turbo I can't remember the tractability; is it normal for the car to tend to bog down when pulling away unless the clutch is slipped slightly? I guess until 2000rpm it is like driving a non turbo 17, which with the estate bodywork is never going to make for fast off the mark starts, at least without abuse of the clutch...
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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DavidRutherford
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Post by DavidRutherford »

jonathan_dyane wrote:driving tonight in darkness showed smoke still visible in following cars headlamps when going on boost
All diesel engines do this. Unless it's generating black smoke, visible in daylight, I wouldn't worry about it.

Has the booooost been twiddled with? You may find that it's generating over a bar, which although fun doesn't lead to long engine life.
jonathan_dyane wrote: is it normal for the car to tend to bog down when pulling away unless the clutch is slipped slightly? I guess until 2000rpm it is like driving a non turbo 17,
Worse. You're driving a non-turbo 17 with low compression and a restriction in both the exhaust and the intake! Yes. They can seem rather gutless until the turbo starts to spin up. Certainly anything below 1500 rpm is well outside of the torque curve.
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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

DavidRutherford wrote:
jonathan_dyane wrote:driving tonight in darkness showed smoke still visible in following cars headlamps when going on boost
All diesel engines do this. Unless it's generating black smoke, visible in daylight, I wouldn't worry about it.

Has the booooost been twiddled with? You may find that it's generating over a bar, which although fun doesn't lead to long engine life.
Thanks David.

The smoke is rather more than the norm, comparable to the BMC 2.2 diesel in my fathers angle cab... The boost has been doctored, I have an invoice from PTS developments which states 'wastegate altered to get a constant 1 bar under load, peaking at 1.2 bar'. Certainly it goes like a rocket, far faster than normal. I think in the interests of longevity I will get the car on ramps tomorrow and wind the boost back a little, and then if I still have excess smoke back off the compensator a tad too...

On the (initial) gutlessness, I guess I have been spoilt by the 306 TD, although once 2000rpm is hit, the 306 would be left (far) behind.
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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docchevron
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Post by docchevron »

Whap a 1.9 N/A cam in it, that'll give notably better off boost torque.

Turning the boost sown a touch will in the natural process of things reduce smoke, but since it passed the emissions test it cant be that bad.

Mine smokes a good deal more than I'd like it to, but it always whips straight through the emissions test on 3 runs.
I was running 1.5 bar, but that was toooooo much, but it seems fine at 1.2 bar, although I get 1.2 bar at 1900RPM..
Smokes lots, because enough's enough already!

Far too many BX's, a bus, an ambulance a few trucks, not enough time and never enough cash...

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Post by stuart_hedges »

DavidRutherford wrote:
jonathan_dyane wrote:driving tonight in darkness showed smoke still visible in following cars headlamps when going on boost
All diesel engines do this. Unless it's generating black smoke, visible in daylight, I wouldn't worry about it.
Mine does this too.

People occasionally comment on the cloud it generates on startup, but I don't plan on worrying while the smoke's not black. The fact that I'm doing a lot of short journeys in it at the moment can't help, either.

My stock response is something like: "19 years old, 140,000 miles, runs on diesel? Yeah. It does smoke a bit. But I own it outright and I'll buy you a pint it you can point out something that's really wrong with it."

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Post by mat_fenwick »

Glovebox lid? :wink:

(Runs away and hides...)
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1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
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Post by stuart_hedges »

Something that's really wrong with it. Not just broken bits of plastic.

/runs after Mat with big pointy weapon :p

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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

Well it was rainy and horrible, and I couldn't face lying under the car looking for the hateful adjustment screw on the KKK turbo, so instead I turned the boost compensator down a smidge, and was rewarded with much less frantic and chaotic performance; the pleasant and relaxing smooth power that Citroen intended. Bliss.

But yet it still smokes! And I am not being paranoid or green; it smokes far more than any diesel car I have owned or driven (other than the already-mentioned BMC 2.2) and an order of magnitude more than the 220000 mile XUD9TE 306 I have just replaced. I can only assume that either the main maximum fuelling is a bit high, or the injectors are due a service. But for now, I'm just happy driving it :-)

And enjoying my fully-functioning glovebox lid (Sorry Stu ;-))
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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Post by jonathan_dyane »

docchevron1472 wrote:Whap a 1.9 N/A cam in it, that'll give notably better off boost torque.

Turning the boost sown a touch will in the natural process of things reduce smoke, but since it passed the emissions test it cant be that bad.

Mine smokes a good deal more than I'd like it to, but it always whips straight through the emissions test on 3 runs.
I was running 1.5 bar, but that was toooooo much, but it seems fine at 1.2 bar, although I get 1.2 bar at 1900RPM..
It scraped through the emissions test with the boost compensator pipe disconnected...

Interesting to hear about the benefits of the NA 1.9 cam, but to be honest now I am used to it I am happy, I was just familiar with the 306's ability to pull away with only a touch of revs, and being able to happily trundle through traffic queue's in 1st or even 2nd without touching the go pedal.
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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Post by mat_fenwick »

jonathan_dyane wrote:Interesting to hear about the benefits of the NA 1.9 cam
I can tell you that the NA cam works well in my (1.9)TD, unfortunately it's all a little subjective as I only drove the donor Xantia once. So I can't attribute the (significantly) better off boost performance solely to the cam, as it may partly be down to the increase in capacity.
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1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad

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Post by DavidRutherford »

jonathan_dyane wrote:I was just familiar with the 306's ability to pull away with only a touch of revs, and being able to happily trundle through traffic queue's in 1st or even 2nd without touching the go pedal.
That's probably the main difference between a 1769cc TD and a 1905cc TD. The headline power may be only 4bhp difference, but the 1905cc has much more torque, especially lower in the rev range. That's one of the main reasons I prefer towing with the 1.9TD.
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jonathan_dyane
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

mat_fenwick wrote:
jonathan_dyane wrote:Interesting to hear about the benefits of the NA 1.9 cam
I can tell you that the NA cam works well in my (1.9)TD, unfortunately it's all a little subjective as I only drove the donor Xantia once. So I can't attribute the (significantly) better off boost performance solely to the cam, as it may partly be down to the increase in capacity.
Which all really begs the question; why did PSA bother with a TD specific cam?
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski