Driveshafts that sound like wheel bearings

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jonathan_dyane
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Driveshafts that sound like wheel bearings

Post by jonathan_dyane »

When I bought my BX I was informed by the previous owner that it 'needed a wheel bearing', and the droning noise it made at speed certainly gave every indication that this was the case.

Although neither of the front wheel bearings felt particularly rough, the NS one had some play, so last week I changed it. No change whatsoever.

Yesterday I picked up another bearing and this morning set to to replace the OS wheel bearing, but after removing the wheel and the disc pads thought hang on, there is *nothing* wrong with this wheel bearing; no roughness detectable whatsoever, and no play. I start the car and let it idle in 5th, to try to hear the noise, and notice that the driveshaft looks somewhat wobbly, and on turning off find that the shaft has in and out play.

So it has to be the driveshaft then! But I have never previously encountered a driveshaft failing like this before, only with the famous clicking on lock developing into exciting knocking at all speeds. Although there did seem to be a slight knock audible with the car running on the stand, when driving all that is apparent is a drone which cuts in at about 35mph and increases with speed. It is slightly worse on R/H corners tho, and slightly better on L/H, which I guess is when the driveshaft runs at a less acute angle.

Has anyone had a driveshaft fail like this before?
Last edited by jonathan_dyane on Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by BX Bandit »

Not how you descibe it no, but the intermediate bearing on the drivers side drive shaft can fail. I doubt the fault I describe would exhibit the cornering aspect of your description but the droning sounds about right. Mine had a cyclic rythm to it as well at say 70mph.
At the time the driveshaft had done nearly 190,000 miles so for the sake of the £80 I got one from GSF. The CVJs had plenty of slop in them too although they made no noise.

If you go the route of buying a replacement, I had a GKN one which had a tabbed nut which you peen into a recerss on the axle (as opposed to the pin/securing washer normally used) Thus, everytime you need to remove the d/s from the hub carrier you need a new (bolt:edit=nut) nut and it's a 36mm socket as opposed to the normal 35mm :x
Last edited by BX Bandit on Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Brian »

Hmm... The sounds you decribe would point to wheel bearings.

I have never known drive shafts to produce the noises you mention.
They either click on lock "outer cv Joint" or create severe wheel wobble on tight bends "Inner tri joint".

I have in the past had rumblings that changed tones from left to right lock.
In all cases it was wheel bearings, difficult sometimes to decide which side is at fault. Even rotating the wheels with the callipers and drive shafts removed, the sounds are not replicable due to the load on the bearing being 180Deg out. So you are not applying pressure on the worn part of the bearing.

Good luck
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

Ugh, what to do then! I am pretty convinced that there is nothing wrong with that w/bearing, but seeing as I already have a replacement perhaps I should replace it anyway. But then, the driveshaft is clearly on borrowed time anyway, due to the movement in the shaft, so perhaps I should buy a new CV joint, and pull the shaft, examine and replace if necessary the intermediate bearing (which now is my no.1 suspect) and fit a new outer CV joint.

Decisions decisions...

Thanks guys.
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Post by mat_fenwick »

Without wanting to disagree with other members (and logic), I have had the same symptoms which were cured on replacement of a driveshaft. I've only had to replace 3 driveshafts since I started driving (most of the vehicles I owned were RWD), two of which did not drone but clicked in the usual way on full lock.
About 60k miles ago I had a droning sound from the NS front wheel on the BX when going round roundabouts. "That *has* to be the wheelbearing, must get round to changing it" I thought. It was only a couple of weeks later when manovering in a car park I had the clicking on full lock (hadn't even thought to check the driveshaft). Anyway, I changed the N/S driveshaft and all was well.
All very puzzling, especially as going round a roundabout it would have been the O/S driveshaft turning through a more acute angle...
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Post by jeremy »

I had this same problem on the ZX 1.9D. Accelerate out of a roundabout (well perhaps try and go not so slowly would be more appropriate) and as you turned the wheel to the left the outside (RH) corner would make an alarming noise.

I checked it - couldn't find anything - so concluded it must be driveshaft and asked a mechanic (MOT tester) to change it. He thought there was nothing wrong and gave me some guff about steering joints rubbing on the wheel at full lock and suggested 4 wheel tracking would sort it.

kept on doing it - and eventually did it on a roundabout just down the road from the mechanic - so I grabbed him and drove him round the roundabout - whereupon it did make the noise.

Changed shaft - no further problems. It had had a new boot on that joint before.

Outer joints only are obtainable here (as are whole shafts). Have used them for an outer joint for my BX (with ABS) and all seemed excellent. The single joints are not exchange - so no deposit, return etc.

http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk
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Post by DavidRutherford »

I've experienced this before too. Failure of the long driveshaft intermediate bearing sounds just like a failed wheelbearing. It also reacts a bit to cornering forces, as the shaft will float about a bit, and load the bearing up under cornering.

The good news: the bearing is available separately, and can be fitted with nothing more advanced than a piece of scaffolding tube (a very long drift!)

The bad news: you have to remove the driveshaft, which means the splitting of the suspension, and draining the gear oil. Very boring indeed.
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Post by mat_fenwick »

As Jonathon's problem seems to be with the O/S shaft, it all seems to make sense - intermediate bearing failure. But the more I think about it I just can't explain the problem I had which was cured (and has remained cured for 60,000 miles) by replacement of the N/S shaft. The noise was definately road speed related, but what?
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Post by Brian »

Getting even more complex.

There should be lateral movement in the driveshaft to allow for the length change as the suspension moves up and down.

This is provided by a spring in the tri joint.

Also most shafts, where they connect to the outer cv joint are fitted with a circlip, some times this clip is either not replaced or has broken, and this will allow excessive lateral movement when checking the shaft.
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Post by jonathan_dyane »

Thanks for all the replies.

Problems with the outer cv joint clip make sense actually, and given that I ran the driveshaft to test it with the suspension on high, this would serve to have the shaft at full extension, and so pull it out from the outer cv joint further than would be possible with a fully functioning clip, and so cause the wobble which I saw.

The way forward, it would seem, would be to pull the driveshaft, replace the bearing and examine the outer joint for flaws. Alas, I shall have to put this off until next month however, as such intervention will likely result in having the thing in bits for a couple of days, and as I have nowhere off-street to work currently and no axle stands, I am reluctant to leave the car in the street propped up with wheels and bits of wood under the sills... Will let you know what I find when I get into it tho.

Don't suppose anyone has the reference number for the bearing (not the Citroen part number but the bearing number)? Might save a bit of time...
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Post by Kitch »

I've had this a couple of times, once on a ZX and again on a Saxo.

Sounds like a wheelbearing has gone, but its the outer CV joint. Unlike a wheel bearing, the noise comes and goes as you come on and off the throttle. Wheel bearings make the noise constantly, even when coasting.
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