Margots sebbatical

[B-Hive]

Hi E'one

Well its time for Margot MK1 to have her 6 monthly rest, as its the SAAB's turn to do some work (6 months on/6 months off). So, I have decided that, in addition to the maintenance issues on her, I am also going to dabble with some mild performance enhancing mods.

As you may or may not know, Margot is a zero rust, accident free MK1 16 TRS Auto with 100,000 miles. Performance is acceptable, even brisk in some situations, but needs improving especially on hills as she tends to struggle a tad. Especially with the air cond running.

Does anyone have any off the shelf improvements that make a real difference.?

I am talking maybe removing centre muffler..Pod air cleaner..Performance plugs/leads.. and more adventurously fitting a warmer cam...if so I'm guessing a pug cam or something...ideas anyone

[Tim Leech]

As the car shared the same engine as a 205GTi albeit with the "i" im sure you dould d oa few things to it, an airfilter may help, dont imagine removing a exhaust box will do much asides making it noisy and out of character with the car. Ive tried so called "performance" plugs and leads in the past and noticed no difference.

[DavidRutherford]

Does anyone have any off the shelf improvements that make a real difference.?

Change the car for a 1.9 auto?

TBH, it shouldn't be struggling that much, as the 1.6 is a 90hp engine which is more than adequate for the BX. I suspect a tune up (maybe a rolling road session) would be the best thing to do to be sure that the mixture is correct across the rev range.

You could put a lumpier cam in it, but you then run the risk of rough idling, lumpy low-down power and peak power that you can't use unless you floor it everywhere. Not really suited to an autobox.

[B-Hive]

Thanks for the feed back..

I agree that (even with an auto) performance should be quite good, especially as its only carrying under a ton. Might shell out for a dyno tune, but like most BX owners, I dont like spending money if I can avoid it. Pessimistically I think a thorough tuning would only make it more efficient rather than go better, plus there is the added allergy I have in actually trusting anyone to do a good job..

Take off from lights is quite good, but she seems to hit a wall as soon as she goes into 2nd, until the massive torque eventually lets the engine wind up a bit into higher rev range.

I guess also, what I have to remember is that most of the time she is going faster than I think, but still on country roads, certain climbs will have her breathless to maintain 100k's.

Am I expecting too much?

[Kitch]

IMO you might be expecting too much. I had a 16 auto, all be it a mk1 with 190k on the clock, but it did have a brand new weber carb. It was also fairly gutless in anything other than 1st gear, all the others were spaced too far apart for it's modest 90bhp.
On the way back from picking it up I was being followed by a mate in our 1.9D estate. I gave the auto some welly to clear the pipes a bit, but couldn't shake the 19RD off - it was totally level!

Had a 16RS with a manual box too, which felt a whole heap swifter to drive. Didn't ever feel quick, but then I wasn't left wanting either.

As David said though, a cam is only really designed to work at high revs. Even a mild fast road cam will still operate higher in the rev range than your current model, which is not going to be ideal in an auto. I'd personally just look into making sure the existing setup is running tip top, but again as Mr Rutherford said....a 1.9 may be better suited to you, if it does have to be an auto? I know my 16auto was usually horrific on fuel and at best got no more than 30mpg, and that was on the motorway, so I can't see the 19 being any different really.

[DavidRutherford]

I know my 16 auto was usually horrific on fuel and at best got no more than 30mpg, and that was on the motorway, so I can't see the 19 being any different really.

If anything I might expect a 19 auto to be slighty more economic, as you don't "feel the need" to boot it just to make the damn car move.

Either way, the biggest issue you have is the auto box. Granted, some modern auto units are now approaching the mechanical efficiency of a manual, but this is an old-technology box without even so much as a lock-up torque converter, so that's a huge loss of performance (either power or economy) straight away.

Do you actually need an auto?

[Way2go]

but this is an old-technology box without even so much as a lock-up torque converter, so that's a huge loss of performance (either power or economy) straight away.

Are you sure? The torque converter of the auto BX is supposedly bypassed in 4th for this reason and partially bypassed in 3rd (to reduce the losses you refer to caused by torque converter slip).

I actually find my auto acceptably positive. The only complaint I have is that with modern speed limits, a lot of driving doesn't achieve 4th gear because it does not change into 4th until 42mph and it will drop out of 4th at 38mph. This is aggravating in a 40 limit but you learn to live with it.

[DavidRutherford]

Are you sure?

Not as much as I was beforehand.

I was under the impression that the BX autobox was in essence a basic auto, with a standard torque converter and 4 speeds... and that's about it.

You can always tell if the torque converter has locked up: If you're travelling at 50mph and go from on-power to off-power, do the revs change much?

[docchevron]

The BX box and the XM box both have full lock up on top gear and 75% lock up on third.

Fairly clever but simple use of a third shaft operated by hydraulic clutch pack.

The only drawback is keeping the bloody thing in top gear!
Unless you're doing 40+ with a light throtte the tendency to change down can be rather irritating.

[Philip Chidlow]

I might be biased, but I have driven four BX GTi autos, a 19 and a 16 auto and have found - in the GTi's at least, the auto box brilliant, predictable and 'workable' with excellent kick-down response. I've also driven three Mercedes, a BMW and a Toyota auto and none of them were as good.

The problem (as noted) with the 16 is the spacing of the gears in proportion to the power/revs ratio. It naturally means the best way to drive the 16 is smoothly and enjoy the cruising ability. It's no rocketship.

On the other hand a 19 or a GTi auto can be driven a lot harder yielding good results. Apparently this morning a GTi auto accelerated hard up a slip road joining the deserted A road at 75 and continued up to an indicated 122 with aplomb. OK I can imagine the fuel consumption would have been - well poor... but. If you must have a BX auto make it a GTi - as generally the fuel economy will not be worse than a 16 auto in my experience.

[DavidRutherford]

Fairly clever but simple use of a third shaft operated by hydraulic clutch pack.

Ah... understand now. Not specifically a "lock up converter" as some other manufacturers have, but a separate clutch pack.

TBH, anyone who is looking for better performance in any respect (power or economy) shouldn't really be looking at an auto anyway. I've yet to hear of any auto that out-performs the equivalent manual model in any way.

Relaxing to drive maybe, I find them painfully dull, and in some cases a pain in the backside. I know when I want to change gear thankyouverymuch.

[Philip Chidlow]

Relaxing to drive maybe, I find them painfully dull, and in some cases a pain in the backside. I know when I want to change gear thankyouverymuch.

It's a matter of taste. I enjoy driving both. But skilfully driven (that is knowing the characteristics of the engine/box/car extremely well) an auto needn't be dull, believe me. On the other hand, I enjoyed the 16v and I agree a manual box has the advantage in economy, flexibility and fun when it comes to a somewhat more frenzied driving style

Getting back on topic I can only suggest getting your 16 auto doing what it is built to do as well as you can get it to (if you understand my garbled writing )... and regardless of the fact you might be getting mediocre fuel consumption - enjoy driving your BX! It's still going to be better than many more 'modern' cars out there.

[B-Hive]

sorry guys..posted a question then my MAC died

she lives again

I appreciate all your Feedback...i guess i am expecting more from the old girl than is reasonable.. but it was just those moments when you are leaning forward in the driver's seat thinking "come on!!!!"

Think i really need to sort out it 's citroen qualities, then it performance will take a back seat.