BX Handling

[Aerodynamica]

Dunno about you guys but over the years I've been in many arguments with other car fanatics accusig the BX of having 'bad handling'.

Now I always argue the difference between bad handling and different feel but the general mode of attack on the BX is that it understeers very badly! The last guy going on about this said he had a BX Gti when he was 17 (it's what he said!!) and it slid straight into a kerb and bent the sub frame.

OK, I did point out he was only 17 and probably couldn't drive but the trouble is, the same thing happened to me! my first BX way back at the start had a real dislike for damp curved turns.

I'd forgotten all about this until a few weeks back Cyril went all slippy and out of control on a fairly tight but totally low speed turn on urban road. I thought I'd hit ice but hadn't. Now both my first BX and Cyril have skinny tyres but presumably the guy had the right ones on this GTi and would be grippier.

So what's the thoughts on this - is the BX a bad handler?

[kiwi]

I probably would say No but then after having a BX for nearly 20 years and after a 3 year absence getting back into one I would say a definate no.

The thing about the BX is the Brakes are more responsive than you bog standard car in my opinion and what have noticed though with the 1900 mainly (bacuse thats all we seem to have here) is the torque when pulling away on greasy or gritty roads. Believe me when I say the roads are shocking here in many places.

As for steering! Hell no given the poor camber and large quantity of corners where I live and around NZ they have a tendancy of marking the recommended speed for corners, I would say its better. Certainly the suspension system makes a differance or could be the driver? I love taking BX in to twisty roads it helps open the gap between the tailgating wonkers in the 4WD skips and scabbyru drivers who think a large exhaust and low suspension equals better car.

Of cours BX owners completely bias into knowing they have a better car full stop.

[Kitch]

I would say it's not a bad handler personally. They can be quite understeery, as most versions have pathetic 165 wide tyres fitted, which are alos higher profile. Couple this with soft suspension, and the front of the car will try to wash out at the earliest oppourtunity.

But lets not get handling and outright grip confused here. You could have a car with no grip (ie Mk1 Escort), but can be throw around in the most controlled manner, even totally broadside if required (again, Mk1 Escort). Or a car with lots of grip which doesn't communicate everything mechanically to the driver (see Activa!)

When we fitted valver wheels to the estate, the difference in grip was unreal. The ride suffered very slightly, but not enough to annoy and the thing would hang on for dear life....you got to the point that it would actually bottom out at one side while cornering before letting go (bump steer NFW). Handing the estate was fairly neutral and it didn't have enough power to do plough-on understeer in anything other than ice really!
The valver's a bit different. To link fast bends together in that requires a different approach to most cars, really because of the suspension. The front does grip well, but in order not to get it all rolypoly you have to come in wide, then smoothly feed in and feedout under power. I've found it doesn't lean as much then and seems to hunker down, but on most grippy little hatches you just pick the quickest line and boot it through it, and they gernally hang on (in the case of a Fiesta Zetec S mk5, you will lose conciousness before it loses grip!)

Again, with the valver you can hammer round a tight one, and if the front washes out just lift out and counter it with the steering and the rear end will come round.

But I've never crashed a BX before, and I have crashed a few other cars which I've driven slower than the valver. It's one of those cars where either a real lack of talent or really unlucky circumstances are the only ways to catch you out.
They do understeer in general, but it's only when provoke and it all happens so slowly I don't think there are any excuses for losing out personally.

Try hammering a TVR in the wet and see how to really mess your pants!

[jonathan_dyane]

Is the BX a bad handler?

I think the BX actually *handles* rather neatly and predictable, but what it does unfortunately suffer from is a lack of grip, particularly in adverse conditions. In comparison to other Citroens such as the GS and CX the level of grip available is far less, which is most noticable in snow but also in wet weather or on roads that are greasy, you can come up against the cars limit very quickly.

Tyres are a factor, and by using tyres others have used successfully on the BX is probably wise, rather than taking a leap into the unknown; some cars are particularly sensitive to tyre choice, and the BX is one of them. If your car has old tyres fitted (which it may, given its low mileage) they will have hardened, and so afford far less grip than would be normally the case. Might be worth checking out the date stamps.

My BX is currently fitted with Continentals, and despite the fronts being close to the limit, grip is still fairly good, so they may be a good bet. I am about to change the almost unworn rears onto the front, and put some part worn michelins on the rear, so will report back with how the good Conti's shape up on the front...

[MULLEY]

I think most people think that the bx doesnt handle very well due to the soft suspension & the amount of body roll, however, this doesnt really describe handling if you ask me.

Unlike modern cars that have rock hard suspension, traction control, asc & all sorts of other gubbins where you can chuck them into corners & they corner pretty much flat & have huge low profile tyres, the bx would probably scare most modern motorists to death.

Skinny tyres do wash out quite badly, i suspect Kitch has hit the nail on the head, if you change your driving style, you can easily keep up with modern motors in the twisties even in a n/a diesel Drive smoothly & within the limits of the car & your abilities, & its surprising how much less body roll is induced with very little tyre scrub.

Since fitting 185/60's to my fleet, i dont seem to suffer from understeer unless i provoke it when the roads are greasy, you can feel it almost immediately which is a real bonus. Modern cars you cant tell naff all because of the overassisted steering feel, & its easily sorted by gently lifting off the throttle, that normally brings the bx back on track, or a bit of power on understeer if you get desperate

[Philip Chidlow]

With good rubber on the front and a sensitive (that is 'understanding') driving style you can go in to a corner quite quick- but not storm in, hold the line (generally -see below) and accelerate away from the apex at a satisfying pace, but where a BX can come unstuck is not at the front but at the rear. I don't mean oversteer, as I agree with the sentiments expressed above. No, I mean if you hit a pothole, manhole or other road imperfection it is easy to get the rear to sort of bounce out of line. It's not pleasent - but it's not particularly dramatic either, although in the wet it can prove annoying. This skittishness is probably due on my current BX to reasonably worn rear arm bearings, particularly on the o/s, but all BXs I've had display this tendancy to some degree.

I put it down to the BX being feather light and without extra weight in the back there's not enough holding the rear down

[Kitch]

With good rubber on the front and a sensitive (that is 'understanding') driving style you can go in to a corner quite quick- but not storm in, hold the line (generally -see below) and accelerate away from the apex at a satisfying pace, but where a BX can come unstuck is not at the front but at the rear. I don't mean oversteer, as I agree with the sentiments expressed above. No, I mean if you hit a pothole, manhole or other road imperfection it is easy to get the rear to sort of bounce out of line. It's not pleasent - but it's not particularly dramatic either, although in the wet it can prove annoying. This skittishness is probably due on my current BX to reasonably worn rear arm bearings, particularly on the o/s, but all BXs I've had display this tendancy to some degree.

I put it down to the BX being feather light and without extra weight in the back there's not enough holding the rear down

Something definately not right there Phil, it's the BX's ability to NOT bump steer that allows it to be hustled along twisty back roads, where stiffer cars may try to jump to the edge slightly.

I always liked the whole "wheels tracking the road like a needle in a record groove" analogy, cos really thats what it's like. The valver some suffer a little bit more scuttle than others because it has the thicker anti roll bars but otherwise it's the choice of my fleet if I wanted to set a land speed record down the Morestead Rd (a local very entertaining fast, twisty kinda deadly road near my house!)

[Philip Chidlow]

You're right Kitch. Definitely something not right. I was really aware of it when I got the car, but I might have started to 'get used to it' - or at least find other things to worry about. A spell at the 'suspension clinic' next month then....

[kiwi]

Its a sad fact that in the 20 plus years of my driving ability the majority of it has been spent in the ownership and comfort of a BX excluding 3 painful years where I missed owning a beast let alone driving one.

Coming back to the BX was like coming home except now we are talking about it there was a few things I had to quickly re adjust to and have observed in the last 3 years.

Firstly theres a stretch of (laughable) Highway 4 we call the Paras which basically to compare to a UK "B" road would be kind. On particular corner seems to catch me out every flippen time which results in a lock up. The other key differance for me was having got used to a more sluggish none power steered Autobox which I still drive but the BX is always my beast of choice.

Recent observations have been the ability of both my wife and I spining the wheels on loose road surface. That I became painfully aware of with the tyre choice on our primary BX on a wet junction! Simply impossible to pull it out in the wet on that junction! Not an ordinary junction but a 100kph stretch of Road.

Now you mentioned handling on the Snow! Err yep can understand that a bit even though when I was back in the UK and Europe the snow never seemed to bother me. Except a couple of times when the suspension did help.

Last winter here I got snookered by a Large Hill that forced me to fit snow chains well before anyone else! Although on reflection the added grip was well needed and gave me a bit more of an edge other other motorists including 4wd. One piece embarresement was taking a right hand junction and finding the back end flip around, lucky for the chains of would have kissed the bank like the guy in the SUV did
Whats more ironic is six months later was back at that same junction with the Fire Brigade to a Campervan driven by a Swedich Police Officer who failed the junction coming the opposite way and died. Standing at that junction could tell the camber was my enermy that icey day.

Overall though the BX certainly gives more modern cars a run for their money if driven by people who understand the cars uniqueness. Heck my wife is an absoluete demon behind the wheel of the BX compared to the overlly cautious approach driving our other motor. Although wont dis the Ponty she handled the snow blardy well in the past and dont chew tyres or fuel either ! Just total underpowered!

Correct Tyre choice for the BX is a must that I will confirm and the light body works for and against it. Yet apparently its rated as one of the safest cars even to todays standard by the Aussie Safety Institute. But then I dont recall the last time I remember seeing a BX on its roof?

[MULLEY]

A mate of mine managed to roll his parents bx, he never fully told me how he managed that. I think a bit of rallycross was the order of that day.

[stuart_hedges]

Kitch puts it very well.

The BX is one of very few cars I've driven which I'd say was under-tyred from the factory - 185s have hugely improved my estate.

The other was my mum's old special-edition, fuel-saving Pug 309 GR Profile, which came on economy 145s. Couple that with a typical 17-year-old's driving style and we had some - ahem - interesting moments!