Bx "standard" relay wanted
Bx "standard" relay wanted
Hello, to convert my starter motors power connection vie a relay, I am looking for one of these.
former BX 16 TGS Meteor Auto owner. No space or time to do own repairs. My BX is now owned by another member of this forum.
Hi,
Have I missed something here ?
You stater motor basically already has a "HEAVY DUTY" relay it's called a "SOLENOID" and its piggy backed on the starter motor.
The SOLENOID is and electro-magnetic (Low amps) activated by the ignition switch and when the Solenoid gets the message from the ignition switch to start the engine the Solenoid plunger hits a big pair of heavy duty terminals (High amps whatever the battery can thro' at it) and then the battery power gives your starter motor all it can to crank the engine over and hopefully power it up !
I see you have a
auto and therefore you need a good battery on it like a power-station (I have a 700 amp. one on my XM 2.5 the biggest that will fit into the battery tray, you need it in this weather) so if you getting starting problems you need to check the performance of the battery (the glow plugs if its a Diesel I see yours is petrol), if the starter is 'Lazy' it could be the armature/brushes worn or a short on the windings.
If you just getting a clicking noise it could be the Heavy Duty terminals on the Solenoid burnt out (If you happy with the performance of the battery) !
But of course it could be just a typical useless worn out ignition switch !
So I'd just start there first by checking the Low amp feed wire to the Solenoid with a circuit tester or make a simple one like I tend to use for simple jobs
(A bulb holder with two wires off it and small croc. clips) remove the spade connector attached to the solenoid (+ pos.) terminal with one of the croc. clips to THAT spade connector and the other croc clip to earth (- neg.).
Then get someone to activate the ignition switch as would to start the car and see if the bulb lights up (Presuming the bulbs okay) if it does not light up its the ignition switch if it does you will have test/check all the items already mentioned !
I hope this simple overview explains how the starter motor etc works and I hope it may be of help to you or someone else !
If you or any one needs a good spare ignition/switch barrel I may a spare but I'm NOT sure if its part of a complete lock set with key's I'd have to check first !
Also take a look at my posting for "BX's for sale and Individual parts (Garage Clear out)" under BX For Sale/Wanted unless you already have !
Thanks
Have I missed something here ?
You stater motor basically already has a "HEAVY DUTY" relay it's called a "SOLENOID" and its piggy backed on the starter motor.
The SOLENOID is and electro-magnetic (Low amps) activated by the ignition switch and when the Solenoid gets the message from the ignition switch to start the engine the Solenoid plunger hits a big pair of heavy duty terminals (High amps whatever the battery can thro' at it) and then the battery power gives your starter motor all it can to crank the engine over and hopefully power it up !
I see you have a
auto and therefore you need a good battery on it like a power-station (I have a 700 amp. one on my XM 2.5 the biggest that will fit into the battery tray, you need it in this weather) so if you getting starting problems you need to check the performance of the battery (the glow plugs if its a Diesel I see yours is petrol), if the starter is 'Lazy' it could be the armature/brushes worn or a short on the windings. If you just getting a clicking noise it could be the Heavy Duty terminals on the Solenoid burnt out (If you happy with the performance of the battery) !
But of course it could be just a typical useless worn out ignition switch !
So I'd just start there first by checking the Low amp feed wire to the Solenoid with a circuit tester or make a simple one like I tend to use for simple jobs
(A bulb holder with two wires off it and small croc. clips) remove the spade connector attached to the solenoid (+ pos.) terminal with one of the croc. clips to THAT spade connector and the other croc clip to earth (- neg.).
Then get someone to activate the ignition switch as would to start the car and see if the bulb lights up (Presuming the bulbs okay) if it does not light up its the ignition switch if it does you will have test/check all the items already mentioned !
I hope this simple overview explains how the starter motor etc works and I hope it may be of help to you or someone else !
If you or any one needs a good spare ignition/switch barrel I may a spare but I'm NOT sure if its part of a complete lock set with key's I'd have to check first !
Also take a look at my posting for "BX's for sale and Individual parts (Garage Clear out)" under BX For Sale/Wanted unless you already have !
Thanks
-
Mike E (uk)
- 1K Away
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:10 am
- Location: High Wycombe, Bucks
- x 1
the key switches do wear out, as do the solonoids and connections to the heavy wiring between them.
The connection of the little wire to the solonoid can give trouble too, remake it with a soldered joint.
The wiring on these cars is somewhat flakey.
Do the checks described above with the meter , if all looks well
then try the relay.
For info:
The relay is to be activated by the starter key switch, and the contacts of the relay then complete a new circuit direct (+ fuse) to the solonoid.
this gives the advantage of a lower resistance path between battery and solonid, which gives a better solonid action and improves starting.
the key switches get worn, and the thin wiring to them runs a long way around the car.
I did this mod to my car a few years ago, and it was a big improvement.
Mike
Oh, I do have a relay spare- pm me.
The connection of the little wire to the solonoid can give trouble too, remake it with a soldered joint.
The wiring on these cars is somewhat flakey.
Do the checks described above with the meter , if all looks well
then try the relay.
For info:
The relay is to be activated by the starter key switch, and the contacts of the relay then complete a new circuit direct (+ fuse) to the solonoid.
this gives the advantage of a lower resistance path between battery and solonid, which gives a better solonid action and improves starting.
the key switches get worn, and the thin wiring to them runs a long way around the car.
I did this mod to my car a few years ago, and it was a big improvement.
Mike
Oh, I do have a relay spare- pm me.
la BX 16 soupapes: sachez apprecier avec moderation.
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
Another one for the check list above 
On one occasion in a car I had my starter motor was trying to engage itself whilst I was driving (engine on and I'd been driving for a least 4 miles) the weather was very bad, Snowing Heavily so I didn't want to stop in the middle of now where but eventuality had to when smoke and a plastic smell of wire insulation was bellowing out from under the bonnet.
This sudden UNCOMMANDED engagement of the starter motor was due to some poor insulation on a live wire chaffing thro' onto the feed wire to the + feed of the Solenoid thus making it want to engage the starter motor.
This in turn burnt out the coil/windings of the Solenoid (Probably due to NOT stopping immediately) all I had to replace was the burnt out Feed wire, re insulate the offending wire which fed the + feed to the Solenoid and the actual Solenoid.
The starter motor it self was fine and continued working after the repair !
This problem of wire chaffing is a big problem in older aircraft and as such can bring them down like the 'Swissair' MD11 over Nova Scotia on 2 Sept.1998 (All 229 on board died unfortunately ).
Crew: Fatalities: 14
Passengers: Fatalities: 215
Total: Fatalities: 229
Airplane damage: Destroyed
Link to Accident Report:-
http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19980902-0
Sorry I know that this and my first posting has gone a bit
maybe it could be copied into the Technical info/chat column
Thanks
P.S. For
Mike E (uk)
Is this relay a 'Commonly' Used One for other electrical circuits as used in Standard wiring of a BX and if so which one/s as I may have some if anyone else need a Relay or two !
On one occasion in a car I had my starter motor was trying to engage itself whilst I was driving (engine on and I'd been driving for a least 4 miles) the weather was very bad, Snowing Heavily so I didn't want to stop in the middle of now where but eventuality had to when smoke and a plastic smell of wire insulation was bellowing out from under the bonnet.
This sudden UNCOMMANDED engagement of the starter motor was due to some poor insulation on a live wire chaffing thro' onto the feed wire to the + feed of the Solenoid thus making it want to engage the starter motor.
This in turn burnt out the coil/windings of the Solenoid (Probably due to NOT stopping immediately) all I had to replace was the burnt out Feed wire, re insulate the offending wire which fed the + feed to the Solenoid and the actual Solenoid.
The starter motor it self was fine and continued working after the repair !
This problem of wire chaffing is a big problem in older aircraft and as such can bring them down like the 'Swissair' MD11 over Nova Scotia on 2 Sept.1998 (All 229 on board died unfortunately ).
Crew: Fatalities: 14
Passengers: Fatalities: 215
Total: Fatalities: 229
Airplane damage: Destroyed
Link to Accident Report:-
http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 19980902-0
Sorry I know that this and my first posting has gone a bit
maybe it could be copied into the Technical info/chat column Thanks
P.S. For
Mike E (uk)
Is this relay a 'Commonly' Used One for other electrical circuits as used in Standard wiring of a BX and if so which one/s as I may have some if anyone else need a Relay or two !
RxBX !
this is the link to the story about the relay...
and many people said they have done it
http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... +australia
this is the link to the story about the relay...
and many people said they have done it
http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php ... +australia
former BX 16 TGS Meteor Auto owner. No space or time to do own repairs. My BX is now owned by another member of this forum.
cacaolat
Thanks for that info, Great interesting mod !
But just for the record my last road going BX TZD was back in March of 2002 who a work colleague purchased (after making him wait 5/6 months before selling it and then only when I was was happy with my XM 2.5 VSX after its maiden voyage to Skegness, it averaged 48.6 MPG, wow !).
I did have some starting issues when I first purchased the TZD (Had only had 55K at the time, sold it with 75K on it) took a while to track the fault down sometimes just completely dead other times cranked over but would not start, had to hot wire the fuel shut off prior to starting up as the shut off valve would not open with ignition on !
Funny thing is once it started up you could disconnect the 'Hotwire' and it carried on running and then when you switched the engine off it operated normal i.e. the engine stopped but then to start it once again it was bonnet up hotwire prior to start etc. rather strange symptoms!
I traced it back to a green crud/corrosion build up in that stupid block connector as used on the Diesel version just under the battery tray collecting moisture etc .
should have used a sealed/water proof one, but may have cost them a few more Franc's/Euro's to produce.
Once all that crud was cleaned out and the connectors slapped up with 'Vaseline' the starting issue went away !
As I said in my initial joining of the BX forum that I'd emigrated onto XM's (Only joined 28-01-09) .
I must say though that older S1 and more used S2 XM's sometimes have similar ignition lock problems so now I know what & how to cut out another 'Weak Link' if it occurs to my XM !
Also by BTW in my previous posting "The sudden UN-COMMANDED engagement of the starter motor” was in my first BX a 17 DTR Turbo !
Once again.
Thanks for the Link.
Thanks for that info, Great interesting mod !
But just for the record my last road going BX TZD was back in March of 2002 who a work colleague purchased (after making him wait 5/6 months before selling it and then only when I was was happy with my XM 2.5 VSX after its maiden voyage to Skegness, it averaged 48.6 MPG, wow !).
I did have some starting issues when I first purchased the TZD (Had only had 55K at the time, sold it with 75K on it) took a while to track the fault down sometimes just completely dead other times cranked over but would not start, had to hot wire the fuel shut off prior to starting up as the shut off valve would not open with ignition on !
Funny thing is once it started up you could disconnect the 'Hotwire' and it carried on running and then when you switched the engine off it operated normal i.e. the engine stopped but then to start it once again it was bonnet up hotwire prior to start etc. rather strange symptoms!
I traced it back to a green crud/corrosion build up in that stupid block connector as used on the Diesel version just under the battery tray collecting moisture etc .
should have used a sealed/water proof one, but may have cost them a few more Franc's/Euro's to produce. Once all that crud was cleaned out and the connectors slapped up with 'Vaseline' the starting issue went away !
As I said in my initial joining of the BX forum that I'd emigrated onto XM's (Only joined 28-01-09) .
I must say though that older S1 and more used S2 XM's sometimes have similar ignition lock problems so now I know what & how to cut out another 'Weak Link' if it occurs to my XM !
Also by BTW in my previous posting "The sudden UN-COMMANDED engagement of the starter motor” was in my first BX a 17 DTR Turbo !
Once again.
Thanks for the Link.
-
Mike E (uk)
- 1K Away
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:10 am
- Location: High Wycombe, Bucks
- x 1
I had 'sudden uncommanded' operation of two starter motors.
the first one burnt out, as did the second one I bought and fitted as the replacement.
I checked the wiring thoughly, and decided it must have been a faulty solonoid, on both motors.
GSF believed me,and sent a replacement which has been good for several years now.
I also fitted quick release terminals to the battery as a precaution.
The relay for the mod is any single pole 25A 12V type you find in BXs.
Mike
the first one burnt out, as did the second one I bought and fitted as the replacement.
I checked the wiring thoughly, and decided it must have been a faulty solonoid, on both motors.
GSF believed me,and sent a replacement which has been good for several years now.
I also fitted quick release terminals to the battery as a precaution.
The relay for the mod is any single pole 25A 12V type you find in BXs.
Mike
la BX 16 soupapes: sachez apprecier avec moderation.
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
It might be clever now, but it won't be in the morning!
cacaolatcacaolat wrote:RxBX !
this is the link to the story about the relay...
and many people said they have done it
http://www.bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2274
No need to you sent me the link remember
All the best with the mod.
Cheers
Last edited by RxBX on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.