Disastrous MOT !
- electrokid
- 1K Away
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:14 pm
- Location: Woking
Disastrous MOT !
After many years of being good as gold I've suddenly got an MOT fail notice that makes War And Peace look like a pamphlet !
Rust holes in the area under the washer bottles and a hole the size of a 10p at the rear of one inner sill. I've been quoted £300 - £350 which sounds reasonable to me - the guy was recommended to me for his quality of work but he's not familiar with the BX - opinions for / against would be appreciated.
Handbrake cables 'insecure' - actually rubbing on the tyre at full lock and the cable outer worn through where they touch. Not sure how this could happen - is it because I'm using 185 tyres instead of 175 - are the snow tyres (which I didn't bother to take off since the winter before last) slightly wider ?
Emissions... yes - plenty
Test Smoke L/m
1 6.62
2 3.84
3 3.97
4 4.36
5 6.58
6 1.95
Zero drift - none mean value 5.47 L/m
The throttle spindle on the pump needs replacing so there may be some air entering the fuel there - could that have anything to do with it. Obviously the pump is as old as the car - is it worth trying the spare pump or are there other tips and frigs that can be used ? Or is the engine just old and knackered ? I don't see how an engine that passed last year and has only done a few thousand miles since, can fail this badly.
N/S outer CV joint gaiter split - I think I know what's needed there
And for the sake of completeness, other advisories were...
Corrosion outside prescribed areas requires attention front and rear
O/S front headlamp wobbles at mounts
N/S rear lamp unit slightly loose
N/S outer sill becoming corroded
N/S inner sill becoming corroded
Snow tyres fitted
Under side of vehicle becoming corroded
Comments. advice, and welcome.
Rust holes in the area under the washer bottles and a hole the size of a 10p at the rear of one inner sill. I've been quoted £300 - £350 which sounds reasonable to me - the guy was recommended to me for his quality of work but he's not familiar with the BX - opinions for / against would be appreciated.
Handbrake cables 'insecure' - actually rubbing on the tyre at full lock and the cable outer worn through where they touch. Not sure how this could happen - is it because I'm using 185 tyres instead of 175 - are the snow tyres (which I didn't bother to take off since the winter before last) slightly wider ?
Emissions... yes - plenty
Test Smoke L/m
1 6.62
2 3.84
3 3.97
4 4.36
5 6.58
6 1.95
Zero drift - none mean value 5.47 L/m
The throttle spindle on the pump needs replacing so there may be some air entering the fuel there - could that have anything to do with it. Obviously the pump is as old as the car - is it worth trying the spare pump or are there other tips and frigs that can be used ? Or is the engine just old and knackered ? I don't see how an engine that passed last year and has only done a few thousand miles since, can fail this badly.
N/S outer CV joint gaiter split - I think I know what's needed there
And for the sake of completeness, other advisories were...
Corrosion outside prescribed areas requires attention front and rear
O/S front headlamp wobbles at mounts
N/S rear lamp unit slightly loose
N/S outer sill becoming corroded
N/S inner sill becoming corroded
Snow tyres fitted
Under side of vehicle becoming corroded
Comments. advice, and welcome.
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate
2002 C5 HDi SX estate
I'd do that welding for 350 boys, then have a small holiday with the profits. Perhaps a little over the odds? Four hours work max I reckon though I can't see how bad the washer bottle scene is. Maybe post some pics? But if the guy is a king amongst welders? ( Whereas I'm just a cowboy out on the Pampas)
Sounds as though the handbrake cable is astray somewhere - doesn't it go through those metal clips on the suspension leg to hold it - maybe they've been by-passed? I can't imagine the tyre size is an issue.
You need to get under with a wire brush at least once a year and check the new colonies of rust and Hammerite them or similar. Then it looks pretty even though it isn't..
Just sounds as though everything has been slightly neglected on what is a a pensioner amongst cars now. I think War and Peace would require more time to read than to fix these things though!
Sounds as though the handbrake cable is astray somewhere - doesn't it go through those metal clips on the suspension leg to hold it - maybe they've been by-passed? I can't imagine the tyre size is an issue.
You need to get under with a wire brush at least once a year and check the new colonies of rust and Hammerite them or similar. Then it looks pretty even though it isn't..
Just sounds as though everything has been slightly neglected on what is a a pensioner amongst cars now. I think War and Peace would require more time to read than to fix these things though!
Todd
this yellow writing is really hard to read
this yellow writing is really hard to read
- mat_fenwick
- Moderator
- Posts: 7326
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
- Location: North Wales
- x 19
You could try turning down the maximum fuel screw on the pump, but it's a bit of a bodge.
As for the welding, I was going to say that I'd come and do it for £350, but then again I don't have any garage overheads to pay! Within 300mm of the suspension mounting would be classed as structural, even if it's not.
As for the welding, I was going to say that I'd come and do it for £350, but then again I don't have any garage overheads to pay! Within 300mm of the suspension mounting would be classed as structural, even if it's not.
If you've ever dismantled one of these you'll know that the bits of rust you see at MOT time are just the tip of the iceberg.
I've broken two recently right down to the last nut and bolt and been framkly amazed at how the things have survived without falling into a heap at the side of the road.
DIY welders seem to glue a patch over the obvious to hide the worst, it's gets a pass so...............
The guy who's quoted £300 has probably seen it all before and knows that once he gets in there with a welders pick there's a lot more needed to do it properly.
Then of couse he could just be a greedy bodger
I'm surprised you only got an advisory on a wobbly headlamp, that should be a fail every time.
I've broken two recently right down to the last nut and bolt and been framkly amazed at how the things have survived without falling into a heap at the side of the road.
DIY welders seem to glue a patch over the obvious to hide the worst, it's gets a pass so...............
The guy who's quoted £300 has probably seen it all before and knows that once he gets in there with a welders pick there's a lot more needed to do it properly.
Then of couse he could just be a greedy bodger
I'm surprised you only got an advisory on a wobbly headlamp, that should be a fail every time.
Last edited by Gibbo2286 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
- mat_fenwick
- Moderator
- Posts: 7326
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
- Location: North Wales
- x 19
Although it's perhaps unfair to tar all DIY welders with the same brush
If it was my own vehicle that I was planning to keep long term, I'd cut out and replace; if it was a run it till it breaks vehicle I'd just patch over.
If I was doing it for someone else, I'd ask them how long they wanted to keep the car, and if it was a paid job would charge accordingly...
I wouldn't know how to do a 'proper' job cheaply. I cut out all the rot and welded a plate over it, sealed and painted. To actually match and blend in a repair would take ages, especially with the compound angles under the bottle and the thinness of the steel.
I'll warrant that this pro welder will do the same, just a bit neater otherwise he'd be joddling into 2013. No-one sees the area anyway apart from those nasty MOT inspectors..
I'll warrant that this pro welder will do the same, just a bit neater otherwise he'd be joddling into 2013. No-one sees the area anyway apart from those nasty MOT inspectors..
Todd
this yellow writing is really hard to read
this yellow writing is really hard to read
-
- Over 2k
- Posts: 5917
- Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:02 pm
- Location: Harwood, Bolton
- My Cars: Land Rover Discovery Series 1 200tdi 3 door
Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5
2020 Fiat Panda cross 4x4 twin air. - x 27
/\
/\ deffinitley as gibbo has said. The little bit of rust you can see will probably be a tenth of the actual area once stripped back. £350 will be a fair price IF done properly and properly sealed and coated afterwards. I wouldn't let him ''not being familiar with the BX'' put you off.
Hand brake cables rubbing on the wheels on full lock IMHO is common on all BX'S, well it certainly has been on all mine no matter what tyres are fitted although wider rims won't help the situation if the offset allows them to be nearer the strutt.
Ref. emissions: I would try a bottle of the fuel additive that you tip in your tank (forgotten it's name) . The London taxi drivers sware by it the week before test to get their taxis through the emissons + a good blast up the motorway.
/\ deffinitley as gibbo has said. The little bit of rust you can see will probably be a tenth of the actual area once stripped back. £350 will be a fair price IF done properly and properly sealed and coated afterwards. I wouldn't let him ''not being familiar with the BX'' put you off.
Hand brake cables rubbing on the wheels on full lock IMHO is common on all BX'S, well it certainly has been on all mine no matter what tyres are fitted although wider rims won't help the situation if the offset allows them to be nearer the strutt.
Ref. emissions: I would try a bottle of the fuel additive that you tip in your tank (forgotten it's name) . The London taxi drivers sware by it the week before test to get their taxis through the emissons + a good blast up the motorway.
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
-
- Over 2k
- Posts: 5917
- Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:02 pm
- Location: Harwood, Bolton
- My Cars: Land Rover Discovery Series 1 200tdi 3 door
Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5
2020 Fiat Panda cross 4x4 twin air. - x 27
Remembered now, it's Forte Diesel Treatment. Our garage in London used to do a lot of freelance work for the London cabbies and as I stated it is apparently common practice to use this stuff the week before test. The web is full of praise for it.
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id ... _Treatment
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/183761.aspx
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id ... _Treatment
http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/183761.aspx
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
For what it's worth, I was estimated half that amount for about 3 h of welding n/s/r boot floor/exhaust bracket (by Chevronics). It is quite possible that £350 is taking into account potential hidden nasties (which my estimate - not quote! - doesn't) - but I'd be asking for clarification on that and time/hourly rate.
Sorry to hear it's bad news and hope sorting will be relatively painless and not tooooo pricey.
Sorry to hear it's bad news and hope sorting will be relatively painless and not tooooo pricey.
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
1991 TZD hatch (Triton Green)
1992 Hurricane
1991 TZD hatch (Triton Green)
1992 Hurricane
-
- Over 2k
- Posts: 3209
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:38 pm
- Location: M K
- x 1
-
- Over 2k
- Posts: 6417
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm
- Location: Fareham, Hants
- My Cars: Too many to list
- x 88
- Contact:
It's not a structural panel as such, but it's within the 30cm zone around a structural suspension or steering mounting.Mickey taker wrote:JayW wrote:Is the washer area structural? First i've heard of that failing MOT.
Yes mate, my /our valver failed on a hole there
One third of a three-spoke BX columnist team for the Citroenian magazine.
CCC BX registrar: The national BX register - click to submit a car!
1983(A) 16TRS (Rouge Valleunga)
1990(H) 16Valve (Rouge Furio)
CCC BX registrar: The national BX register - click to submit a car!
1983(A) 16TRS (Rouge Valleunga)
1990(H) 16Valve (Rouge Furio)
- electrokid
- 1K Away
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:14 pm
- Location: Woking
Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated
I've booked it in for the welding to be done on Tuesday, and I'll touch base with my favourite BX repair guy (Andy Baker) on Monday morning to chat about the handbrake cables (which he fitted when the front disks were replaced so hopefully he'll know any fiddles to get them out of the way) and book a time for the CV boot.
Thanks for the additive tip Kevan - someone else has already suggested 'driving down the M4 in third gear' and also that the MOT test can just measure the crud that's accumulated in the exhaust system - that makes sense - the last reading (measurement '6' above) is in spec, only just a little above last years reading and possibly after the crud-clearing functions of the previous tests - 1.95 is where I'd expect it to be.
I've booked it in for the welding to be done on Tuesday, and I'll touch base with my favourite BX repair guy (Andy Baker) on Monday morning to chat about the handbrake cables (which he fitted when the front disks were replaced so hopefully he'll know any fiddles to get them out of the way) and book a time for the CV boot.
Only a very slight wobble so the beam didn't move to an area that would dazzle - my fault - I should have fitted the new headlamps I've got for it !I'm surprised you only got an advisory on a wobbly headlamp, that should be a fail every time.
Very good point Mat and...If I was doing it for someone else, I'd ask them how long they wanted to keep the car, and if it was a paid job would charge accordingly...
'Done properly and sealed afterwards' was pretty much how this guy was recommended to me - but worth me checking as the job progresses.deffinitley as gibbo has said. The little bit of rust you can see will probably be a tenth of the actual area once stripped back. £350 will be a fair price IF done properly and properly sealed and coated afterwards. I wouldn't let him ''not being familiar with the BX'' put you off.
Thanks for the additive tip Kevan - someone else has already suggested 'driving down the M4 in third gear' and also that the MOT test can just measure the crud that's accumulated in the exhaust system - that makes sense - the last reading (measurement '6' above) is in spec, only just a little above last years reading and possibly after the crud-clearing functions of the previous tests - 1.95 is where I'd expect it to be.
Thanks Caffiend - the boot floor is a simpler job and Chevronics know their way around the BX ok. I was lucky with that area on mine - when I found the exhaust hanger rusted off a couple of years ago I had it welded to a plate which I subsequently bolted to the car - with 4 x 8mm stainless steel bolts - I wonder what kind of mood brought that on ?For what it's worth, I was estimated half that amount for about 3 h of welding n/s/r boot floor/exhaust bracket (by Chevronics). It is quite possible that £350 is taking into account potential hidden nasties (which my estimate - not quote! - doesn't) - but I'd be asking for clarification on that and time/hourly rate.
Sorry to hear it's bad news and hope sorting will be relatively painless and not tooooo pricey.
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate
2002 C5 HDi SX estate
did you give her a Mexican tune up ern route to the MOT station and get her realy hot,
the hand brake cables can be because the support bracket on the leg is either bent outwards to far (with cable rubbing wheel rim i always bash the eye inwards against the strut/leg ),
or the support bracket has snapped off at its mounting plate (weld it back on)
on return to the MOT station ask if they can run in by there smoke meter before they log it on to big brothers computer (VOSA .GOV ),
also of course the washer bottle area is an failure as directly the other side of the fire wall/bulkhead is the suspension turret/strut mounting,
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
the hand brake cables can be because the support bracket on the leg is either bent outwards to far (with cable rubbing wheel rim i always bash the eye inwards against the strut/leg ),
or the support bracket has snapped off at its mounting plate (weld it back on)
on return to the MOT station ask if they can run in by there smoke meter before they log it on to big brothers computer (VOSA .GOV ),
also of course the washer bottle area is an failure as directly the other side of the fire wall/bulkhead is the suspension turret/strut mounting,
regards malcolm
regards malcolm
curent ride
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
K reg BX 17TD TZD est
also own
K reg D special
no longer have
H reg CX saffari 2.5 TRI (now gone to Malaysia)
R reg xantia 1.9TD est (gone to meet its maker)
-
- BXpert
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:50 am
- Location: Tonbridge KENT
- My Cars: Citroens SAABs and Vauxhalls
- x 2
Disasterous MOT
Dear B.
So sorry to hear the not so good M.O.T.
I really hope you can manage to get on top of evrything B. and that all
goes well when you take her back for the re-test B.
All the very best.
Vince.
So sorry to hear the not so good M.O.T.
I really hope you can manage to get on top of evrything B. and that all
goes well when you take her back for the re-test B.
All the very best.
Vince.
Passion Hydropneumatic Citroen,s
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.
Cars;- 1993 White Citroen BX 1.6 TXi petrol
saloon auto with air-con & ABS.
47,594 Miles from new.
Owned for 3 years sorned.
1988 Silver SAAB 900i 2.0 8v F/lift,
saloon 5sp with 3 spoke Ronals,
69,000 Miles from new.
Owned for 15 years T & T.