Disastrous MOT !

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electrokid
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Disastrous MOT !

Post by electrokid » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 am

After many years of being good as gold I've suddenly got an MOT fail notice that makes War And Peace look like a pamphlet !

Rust holes in the area under the washer bottles and a hole the size of a 10p at the rear of one inner sill. I've been quoted £300 - £350 which sounds reasonable to me - the guy was recommended to me for his quality of work but he's not familiar with the BX - opinions for / against would be appreciated.

Handbrake cables 'insecure' - actually rubbing on the tyre at full lock and the cable outer worn through where they touch. Not sure how this could happen - is it because I'm using 185 tyres instead of 175 - are the snow tyres (which I didn't bother to take off since the winter before last) slightly wider ?

Emissions... yes - plenty :lol:
Test Smoke L/m
1 6.62
2 3.84
3 3.97
4 4.36
5 6.58
6 1.95

Zero drift - none mean value 5.47 L/m

The throttle spindle on the pump needs replacing so there may be some air entering the fuel there - could that have anything to do with it. Obviously the pump is as old as the car - is it worth trying the spare pump or are there other tips and frigs that can be used ? Or is the engine just old and knackered ? I don't see how an engine that passed last year and has only done a few thousand miles since, can fail this badly.

N/S outer CV joint gaiter split - I think I know what's needed there :lol:

And for the sake of completeness, other advisories were...

Corrosion outside prescribed areas requires attention front and rear

O/S front headlamp wobbles at mounts

N/S rear lamp unit slightly loose

N/S outer sill becoming corroded

N/S inner sill becoming corroded

Snow tyres fitted

Under side of vehicle becoming corroded

Comments. advice, and beers welcome.
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate

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toddao
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Post by toddao » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:26 am

I'd do that welding for 350 boys, then have a small holiday with the profits. Perhaps a little over the odds? Four hours work max I reckon though I can't see how bad the washer bottle scene is. Maybe post some pics? But if the guy is a king amongst welders? ( Whereas I'm just a cowboy out on the Pampas)

Sounds as though the handbrake cable is astray somewhere - doesn't it go through those metal clips on the suspension leg to hold it - maybe they've been by-passed? I can't imagine the tyre size is an issue.

You need to get under with a wire brush at least once a year and check the new colonies of rust and Hammerite them or similar. Then it looks pretty even though it isn't..

Just sounds as though everything has been slightly neglected on what is a a pensioner amongst cars now. I think War and Peace would require more time to read than to fix these things though!
Todd


this yellow writing is really hard to read

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JayW
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Post by JayW » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:23 am

Is the washer area structural? First i've heard of that failing MOT.
I have zero patience for your tedium.

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Post by mat_fenwick » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:37 am

You could try turning down the maximum fuel screw on the pump, but it's a bit of a bodge.

As for the welding, I was going to say that I'd come and do it for £350, but then again I don't have any garage overheads to pay! Within 300mm of the suspension mounting would be classed as structural, even if it's not.
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Post by Gibbo2286 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:43 am

If you've ever dismantled one of these you'll know that the bits of rust you see at MOT time are just the tip of the iceberg.

I've broken two recently right down to the last nut and bolt and been framkly amazed at how the things have survived without falling into a heap at the side of the road.

DIY welders seem to glue a patch over the obvious to hide the worst, it's gets a pass so...............

The guy who's quoted £300 has probably seen it all before and knows that once he gets in there with a welders pick there's a lot more needed to do it properly.

Then of couse he could just be a greedy bodger :D

I'm surprised you only got an advisory on a wobbly headlamp, that should be a fail every time.
Last edited by Gibbo2286 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by mat_fenwick » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:56 am

..that_
Although it's perhaps unfair to tar all DIY welders with the same brush :wink:
If it was my own vehicle that I was planning to keep long term, I'd cut out and replace; if it was a run it till it breaks vehicle I'd just patch over.

If I was doing it for someone else, I'd ask them how long they wanted to keep the car, and if it was a paid job would charge accordingly...
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Post by toddao » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:10 am

I wouldn't know how to do a 'proper' job cheaply. I cut out all the rot and welded a plate over it, sealed and painted. To actually match and blend in a repair would take ages, especially with the compound angles under the bottle and the thinness of the steel.
I'll warrant that this pro welder will do the same, just a bit neater otherwise he'd be joddling into 2013. No-one sees the area anyway apart from those nasty MOT inspectors..
Todd


this yellow writing is really hard to read

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Post by Defender110 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:19 am

/\
/\ deffinitley as gibbo has said. The little bit of rust you can see will probably be a tenth of the actual area once stripped back. £350 will be a fair price IF done properly and properly sealed and coated afterwards. I wouldn't let him ''not being familiar with the BX'' put you off.

Hand brake cables rubbing on the wheels on full lock IMHO is common on all BX'S, well it certainly has been on all mine no matter what tyres are fitted although wider rims won't help the situation if the offset allows them to be nearer the strutt.

Ref. emissions: I would try a bottle of the fuel additive that you tip in your tank (forgotten it's name) . The London taxi drivers sware by it the week before test to get their taxis through the emissons + a good blast up the motorway.
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Post by Defender110 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:35 am

Remembered now, it's Forte Diesel Treatment. Our garage in London used to do a lot of freelance work for the London cabbies and as I stated it is apparently common practice to use this stuff the week before test. The web is full of praise for it.

http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id ... _Treatment


http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/183761.aspx
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Post by Caffiend » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:43 am

For what it's worth, I was estimated half that amount for about 3 h of welding n/s/r boot floor/exhaust bracket (by Chevronics). It is quite possible that £350 is taking into account potential hidden nasties (which my estimate - not quote! - doesn't) - but I'd be asking for clarification on that and time/hourly rate.

Sorry to hear it's bad news and hope sorting will be relatively painless and not tooooo pricey.
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Post by Mickey taker » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:44 am

JayW wrote:Is the washer area structural? First i've heard of that failing MOT.

Yes mate, my /our valver failed on a hole there
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light travels faster than sound, thats why you look intelligent and then you spoil it all by opening your mouth !!!!!

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Post by Kitch » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:21 pm

Mickey taker wrote:
JayW wrote:Is the washer area structural? First i've heard of that failing MOT.

Yes mate, my /our valver failed on a hole there
It's not a structural panel as such, but it's within the 30cm zone around a structural suspension or steering mounting.

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electrokid
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Post by electrokid » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:03 pm

Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated :)

I've booked it in for the welding to be done on Tuesday, and I'll touch base with my favourite BX repair guy (Andy Baker) on Monday morning to chat about the handbrake cables (which he fitted when the front disks were replaced so hopefully he'll know any fiddles to get them out of the way) and book a time for the CV boot.
I'm surprised you only got an advisory on a wobbly headlamp, that should be a fail every time.
Only a very slight wobble so the beam didn't move to an area that would dazzle - my fault - I should have fitted the new headlamps I've got for it !
If I was doing it for someone else, I'd ask them how long they wanted to keep the car, and if it was a paid job would charge accordingly...
Very good point Mat and...
deffinitley as gibbo has said. The little bit of rust you can see will probably be a tenth of the actual area once stripped back. £350 will be a fair price IF done properly and properly sealed and coated afterwards. I wouldn't let him ''not being familiar with the BX'' put you off.
'Done properly and sealed afterwards' was pretty much how this guy was recommended to me - but worth me checking as the job progresses.

Thanks for the additive tip Kevan - someone else has already suggested 'driving down the M4 in third gear' :lol: and also that the MOT test can just measure the crud that's accumulated in the exhaust system - that makes sense - the last reading (measurement '6' above) is in spec, only just a little above last years reading and possibly after the crud-clearing functions of the previous tests - 1.95 is where I'd expect it to be.
For what it's worth, I was estimated half that amount for about 3 h of welding n/s/r boot floor/exhaust bracket (by Chevronics). It is quite possible that £350 is taking into account potential hidden nasties (which my estimate - not quote! - doesn't) - but I'd be asking for clarification on that and time/hourly rate.

Sorry to hear it's bad news and hope sorting will be relatively painless and not tooooo pricey.
Thanks Caffiend - the boot floor is a simpler job and Chevronics know their way around the BX ok. I was lucky with that area on mine - when I found the exhaust hanger rusted off a couple of years ago I had it welded to a plate which I subsequently bolted to the car - with 4 x 8mm stainless steel bolts - I wonder what kind of mood brought that on ? :lol:
1992 BX19 TGD estate 228K Rusty - SORNed
2002 C5 HDi SX estate

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Post by citronut » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:18 pm

did you give her a Mexican tune up ern route to the MOT station and get her realy hot,

the hand brake cables can be because the support bracket on the leg is either bent outwards to far (with cable rubbing wheel rim i always bash the eye inwards against the strut/leg ),

or the support bracket has snapped off at its mounting plate (weld it back on)


on return to the MOT station ask if they can run in by there smoke meter before they log it on to big brothers computer (VOSA .GOV ),

also of course the washer bottle area is an failure as directly the other side of the fire wall/bulkhead is the suspension turret/strut mounting,

regards malcolm

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Disasterous MOT

Post by bx petrol auto saloon » Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Dear B.
So sorry to hear the not so good M.O.T.
I really hope you can manage to get on top of evrything B. and that all
goes well when you take her back for the re-test B. :wink:
All the very best.
Vince.
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