Octopus modification

Anything about BXs
Post Reply
User avatar
BX Bandit
Backslash Bandit
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Home
My Cars: Cars
x 3

Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

An idea that's been considered by a few before is to reduce the octopus to no more than 12" in length and use plastic piping and pneumatic self sealing connectors. All piping would then be push fit into the shortened octopus a top the lhm reservoir.

As I will be taking the engine out shortly, I may as well tackle this.

Has anyone tried or does any one know if the pneumatic push fittings are oil proof? I suspect they must be.
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TGD White
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue
Defender110
Over 2k
Posts: 5917
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:02 pm
Location: Harwood, Bolton
My Cars: Land Rover Discovery Series 1 200tdi 3 door
Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5
2020 Fiat Panda cross 4x4 twin air.
x 27

Re: Octopus modification

Post by Defender110 »

Push in type speed fittings are oil proof as they are used in diesel fuel systems but are no good for soft rubber piping so how would you connect them to the octopus? A new octopus fitted when you have you're engine out would last another 15 years so why improvise?

I think Hose Menders are better for octopus fixing?

http://www.beal.org.uk/hoses-tubing-fit ... at_37.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
User avatar
JayW
1K Away
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Now listen here you mullet...
x 13

Re: Octopus modification

Post by JayW »

The TGD has had a new Octopus, back in 2011.
I have zero patience for your tedium.
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Re: Octopus modification

Post by MULLEY »

Didn't someone last year post up a piccy of their homemade octopus made of plastic piping with various connectors so that any damaged parts could be replaced easily & simply? I remember the piccy, but there was no follow up to show exactly what tech specs it was, a shame as that would have been fantastic to know exactly how it was designed.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
User avatar
Jaba
1K Away
Posts: 1893
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:54 am
Location: Usually in the garage
My Cars: BX GTi, C3 Auto
x 80

Re: Octopus modification

Post by Jaba »

That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
The Joy of BX with just one Citroën BX to my name now. Will I sing Bye Bye to my GTI or will it be Till death us do part.
User avatar
MULLEY
Over 2k
Posts: 8406
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: 1999 Xsara LX 2.0HDI (90) Hatch - Fern
2002 C5 2.0 HDI (110) Estate - Jasmine - SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - SORN
1992 TZD Turbo Estate - SORN
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired - SORN
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN
x 8

Re: Octopus modification

Post by MULLEY »

Aha, our friend abroad :) He's been quiet for quite a while now.
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Jasmine - Now SORN
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - SOLD
2016 Mercedes A180D Sport - Auto refinement
1992 TZD Turbo - Bluebell - My daily
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze - crash damaged, will get repaired.
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014
1988 CX 25 GTI Turbo2 - SORN
1996 - AX Memphis 1.5D - Dream - SORN

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.
User avatar
BX Bandit
Backslash Bandit
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Home
My Cars: Cars
x 3

Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Defender110 wrote:Push in type speed fittings are oil proof as they are used in diesel fuel systems but are no good for soft rubber piping so how would you connect them to the octopus? A new octopus fitted when you have you're engine out would last another 15 years so why improvise?

I think Hose Menders are better for octopus fixing?

http://www.beal.org.uk/hoses-tubing-fit ... at_37.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been bitten so to speak by an octopus, in that a new old stock one I bought lasted about two years and then perished. Although I see your point about fitting one and then forgetting about it for fifteen years, it's just a right pita when they do leak. Plastic piping and fittings would be fit for life, the only rubber bit sitting atop the lhm tank.

It terms of connecting the plastic and connectors to the octopus, the plastic piping would just be a push fit, it's all non pressure return piping. From there the plastic pipes would follow the same routing as the original octopus, changing into push on rubber connectors (say three inches of octopus tube) where the original octopus connects say to the front strut leak off pipe work (the ones in metal fixed to the inner wheel arch)

The manifold part of the octopus that sits next on top of the front subframe could then be replaced by the pneumatic plastic push on connectors but also moved somewhere up behind the off side headlamp. I accept that my three inches of rubber tubing will last no longer than an octopus itself, but it's a five minute job to replace it with much better accessibility.

It's a DIY copy of the xantia 'octopus' approach which was much better IMO, although the die hards could argue that a Citroen without an octopus isn't a Citroen at all!

Those hose Menderes look good by the way. I'm thinking we should have a website link section on here for all the handy links people put up. You busy Matt :wink:
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TGD White
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue
User avatar
Tim Leech
Over 2k
Posts: 15565
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Derbyshire
My Cars: Various
x 141

Re: Octopus modification

Post by Tim Leech »

I am sure somone nearer to home did one aswell, Tim maybe?
Lots of Motors, mostly semi broken....
User avatar
BX Bandit
Backslash Bandit
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Home
My Cars: Cars
x 3

Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Jaba wrote:That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
Do you know his username Jaba?
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TGD White
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue
Defender110
Over 2k
Posts: 5917
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:02 pm
Location: Harwood, Bolton
My Cars: Land Rover Discovery Series 1 200tdi 3 door
Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5
2020 Fiat Panda cross 4x4 twin air.
x 27

Re: Octopus modification

Post by Defender110 »

Was the new old stock octopus that failed a genuine/OE one or a remanufactured item similar to the inferior quality GSF strut returns? If genuine was it perished rubber or rub through fom different routing? I am interested to know as I like some others am a great believer that the octopus was not a weak point of the car like some think but a very good replaceable wear part with many lasting 15 years +?
Kevan
1997 Mercedes C230 W202
2003 Land Rover Discovery Series 2 Facelift TD5 - Daily driver / hobby days and camping.
1993 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi Series 1 3 door - in need of TLC
2020 Fiat Panda 4x4 Cross Twin Air.
User avatar
mat_fenwick
Moderator
Posts: 7326
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: North Wales
x 19

Re: Octopus modification

Post by mat_fenwick »

BX Bandit wrote:
Jaba wrote:That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
Do you know his username Jaba?
This might be useful...
Image

1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad
tim
BXpert
Posts: 324
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:51 pm
Location: somerset
My Cars: 2 1992 BX TXD estates
x 1

Re: Octopus modification

Post by tim »

Yep, that's me. Octopus is still fine, no problems. I simply cannot understand why anyone would wish to put the octopus back in the original position when the alternative is so simple. Like I said before it makes sense when the car is brand new on the line, and the engine hasn't been fitted yet. But now? I had a rad hose feed fail due to oil thrown onto it from a seal by the pump belt. Imagine how much shittier it is down below - although if you've been there no imagination is required. See pictures; the octopus didn't just 'perish', oil had rotted the whole thing.
I am also an old cynic when it comes to new parts. Where were they made? Commission something outside the EU and it may well be cheap but made of food grade rubber which comes to bits in a year. Seen that, paid the price. BX Bandit did too from the sound of it..... if it is happily sitting on the bulkhead in full view there is no doubt about its condition and where any leaks might be coming from.
User avatar
BX Bandit
Backslash Bandit
Posts: 2588
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Home
My Cars: Cars
x 3

Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Defender110 wrote:Was the new old stock octopus that failed a genuine/OE one or a remanufactured item similar to the inferior quality GSF strut returns? If genuine was it perished rubber or rub through fom different routing? I am interested to know as I like some others am a great believer that the octopus was not a weak point of the car like some think but a very good replaceable wear part with many lasting 15 years +?
It was a genuine one, but, the small up stand on the manifold section that sits atop the subframe that takes the 3inch long plastic elbow pipe from the front height corrector was, in injection moulding terms, (which is how I imagine the octopus is made except in rubber) either short shot (not enough material) or one of the process parameters was incorrect (mould temp, holding pressure) which resulted in a poor bond between two flow fronts (where the injected material flows around the mould and 'joins' the other side. Within about a year this part had split. The same octopus split along the pipes that fit onto the lhm tank filter housing joints. Maybe it was just old, maybe it was a dud, but either way I've had my fingers burnt. So, no, it wasn't rubbed and didn't look perished. I went through a phase of 'patching up' both octopus' on my TGD, and 16v with the inevitable pipework splitting a year after etc. OK, I know that's not the answer, and whilst I agree the octopus isn't a weak point in design as such, it's certainly prone to early failure if it's had a long shelf life or poor manufacturing. So my reasons for finding an alternative are:
1) They are expensive if still available (anyone know?)
2) A right pita to fit
3) For me at least, there is that niggle in the back of my mind that it will some day warrant urgent attention, most likely when not at home
4) The Xantia design was so much better - a more robust solution.

I didn't think of routing the pipework along the bulk head mind Tim, I shall give thought to that.
1990 BX 16V Platinum Grey
1990 BX TGD White
1960 Morris Minor Clarondon Grey
1971 Triumph 2000 Auto Valencia Blue
Tinkley
1K Away
Posts: 1502
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:27 am
Location: N Hants England
x 8

Re: Octopus modification

Post by Tinkley »

I doubt the Octopus is injection moulded, its a very long flow path and you would need vents all over the place. Most likely made by pouring in the 'rubber' around the cores and then releasing tool and peeling off cores afterwards. You still have vents hence the trim nibs left over. With a slight vacuum you should get good results. It should also work if you made the tooling, in silicone, instead of the 'rubber'. BTW the rubber floor mats are compression moulded and the tooling is cheap.
In the case of the Octopus an operative has to strip the long pipes from the cores manually. It is possible to damage the material ie stretch it too hard, have stick out (not enough release agent on tool) or some other problem so the final product could be compromised.
User avatar
mat_fenwick
Moderator
Posts: 7326
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: North Wales
x 19

Re: Octopus modification

Post by mat_fenwick »

I don't know if you saw Rmattila's link down the page, but the idea is tempting to me for the next time. One length of standard pipe and you can fix it more easily out on the road.
Image

1993 1.9 TZD Turbo Estate
1996 3.9 V8 Discovery
1993 VW LT35 campervan
1985 Hyundai Stellar V8
2016 Hyundai iLoad
Post Reply