Octopus modification

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BX Bandit
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Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

An idea that's been considered by a few before is to reduce the octopus to no more than 12" in length and use plastic piping and pneumatic self sealing connectors. All piping would then be push fit into the shortened octopus a top the lhm reservoir.

As I will be taking the engine out shortly, I may as well tackle this.

Has anyone tried or does any one know if the pneumatic push fittings are oil proof? I suspect they must be.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by Defender110 »

Push in type speed fittings are oil proof as they are used in diesel fuel systems but are no good for soft rubber piping so how would you connect them to the octopus? A new octopus fitted when you have you're engine out would last another 15 years so why improvise?

I think Hose Menders are better for octopus fixing?

http://www.beal.org.uk/hoses-tubing-fit ... at_37.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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JayW
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by JayW »

The TGD has had a new Octopus, back in 2011.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by MULLEY »

Didn't someone last year post up a piccy of their homemade octopus made of plastic piping with various connectors so that any damaged parts could be replaced easily & simply? I remember the piccy, but there was no follow up to show exactly what tech specs it was, a shame as that would have been fantastic to know exactly how it was designed.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by Jaba »

That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by MULLEY »

Aha, our friend abroad :) He's been quiet for quite a while now.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Defender110 wrote:Push in type speed fittings are oil proof as they are used in diesel fuel systems but are no good for soft rubber piping so how would you connect them to the octopus? A new octopus fitted when you have you're engine out would last another 15 years so why improvise?

I think Hose Menders are better for octopus fixing?

http://www.beal.org.uk/hoses-tubing-fit ... at_37.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've been bitten so to speak by an octopus, in that a new old stock one I bought lasted about two years and then perished. Although I see your point about fitting one and then forgetting about it for fifteen years, it's just a right pita when they do leak. Plastic piping and fittings would be fit for life, the only rubber bit sitting atop the lhm tank.

It terms of connecting the plastic and connectors to the octopus, the plastic piping would just be a push fit, it's all non pressure return piping. From there the plastic pipes would follow the same routing as the original octopus, changing into push on rubber connectors (say three inches of octopus tube) where the original octopus connects say to the front strut leak off pipe work (the ones in metal fixed to the inner wheel arch)

The manifold part of the octopus that sits next on top of the front subframe could then be replaced by the pneumatic plastic push on connectors but also moved somewhere up behind the off side headlamp. I accept that my three inches of rubber tubing will last no longer than an octopus itself, but it's a five minute job to replace it with much better accessibility.

It's a DIY copy of the xantia 'octopus' approach which was much better IMO, although the die hards could argue that a Citroen without an octopus isn't a Citroen at all!

Those hose Menderes look good by the way. I'm thinking we should have a website link section on here for all the handy links people put up. You busy Matt :wink:
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by Tim Leech »

I am sure somone nearer to home did one aswell, Tim maybe?
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Jaba wrote:That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
Do you know his username Jaba?
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by Defender110 »

Was the new old stock octopus that failed a genuine/OE one or a remanufactured item similar to the inferior quality GSF strut returns? If genuine was it perished rubber or rub through fom different routing? I am interested to know as I like some others am a great believer that the octopus was not a weak point of the car like some think but a very good replaceable wear part with many lasting 15 years +?
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by mat_fenwick »

BX Bandit wrote:
Jaba wrote:That was Matilla the Finn's brilliant concoction.
Do you know his username Jaba?
This might be useful...
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by tim »

Yep, that's me. Octopus is still fine, no problems. I simply cannot understand why anyone would wish to put the octopus back in the original position when the alternative is so simple. Like I said before it makes sense when the car is brand new on the line, and the engine hasn't been fitted yet. But now? I had a rad hose feed fail due to oil thrown onto it from a seal by the pump belt. Imagine how much shittier it is down below - although if you've been there no imagination is required. See pictures; the octopus didn't just 'perish', oil had rotted the whole thing.
I am also an old cynic when it comes to new parts. Where were they made? Commission something outside the EU and it may well be cheap but made of food grade rubber which comes to bits in a year. Seen that, paid the price. BX Bandit did too from the sound of it..... if it is happily sitting on the bulkhead in full view there is no doubt about its condition and where any leaks might be coming from.

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Re: Octopus modification

Post by BX Bandit »

Defender110 wrote:Was the new old stock octopus that failed a genuine/OE one or a remanufactured item similar to the inferior quality GSF strut returns? If genuine was it perished rubber or rub through fom different routing? I am interested to know as I like some others am a great believer that the octopus was not a weak point of the car like some think but a very good replaceable wear part with many lasting 15 years +?
It was a genuine one, but, the small up stand on the manifold section that sits atop the subframe that takes the 3inch long plastic elbow pipe from the front height corrector was, in injection moulding terms, (which is how I imagine the octopus is made except in rubber) either short shot (not enough material) or one of the process parameters was incorrect (mould temp, holding pressure) which resulted in a poor bond between two flow fronts (where the injected material flows around the mould and 'joins' the other side. Within about a year this part had split. The same octopus split along the pipes that fit onto the lhm tank filter housing joints. Maybe it was just old, maybe it was a dud, but either way I've had my fingers burnt. So, no, it wasn't rubbed and didn't look perished. I went through a phase of 'patching up' both octopus' on my TGD, and 16v with the inevitable pipework splitting a year after etc. OK, I know that's not the answer, and whilst I agree the octopus isn't a weak point in design as such, it's certainly prone to early failure if it's had a long shelf life or poor manufacturing. So my reasons for finding an alternative are:
1) They are expensive if still available (anyone know?)
2) A right pita to fit
3) For me at least, there is that niggle in the back of my mind that it will some day warrant urgent attention, most likely when not at home
4) The Xantia design was so much better - a more robust solution.

I didn't think of routing the pipework along the bulk head mind Tim, I shall give thought to that.
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Re: Octopus modification

Post by Tinkley »

I doubt the Octopus is injection moulded, its a very long flow path and you would need vents all over the place. Most likely made by pouring in the 'rubber' around the cores and then releasing tool and peeling off cores afterwards. You still have vents hence the trim nibs left over. With a slight vacuum you should get good results. It should also work if you made the tooling, in silicone, instead of the 'rubber'. BTW the rubber floor mats are compression moulded and the tooling is cheap.
In the case of the Octopus an operative has to strip the long pipes from the cores manually. It is possible to damage the material ie stretch it too hard, have stick out (not enough release agent on tool) or some other problem so the final product could be compromised.

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Re: Octopus modification

Post by mat_fenwick »

I don't know if you saw Rmattila's link down the page, but the idea is tempting to me for the next time. One length of standard pipe and you can fix it more easily out on the road.
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