Cyril's progress

Tell us about life with your BX, or indeed life in general!
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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:16 pm

My "sinker" Xantia hisses Graeme. I wonder if it's inherent in the use of an FDV in these vehicles.

Mine has always hissed, much to the amusement of others Laughing but the hydraulics otherwise work absolutely perfectly...

Something to be lived with I guess and all part of the "Character" Wink
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I can categorically declare that it is a 'feature' of the FDV valve - S1 and 1.5 Xms also make the hiss sound - much louder too!

It was actually one of the first things I noticed about Citroens - I've always secretly been quite fascinated by the Hiss.. My dad had a 1994 Xantia D LX that delighted me with its hissing noise. I noticed that his Xant (which was bought as a 3 year old from a Cit dealer) only really made short hiss intervals until the accumulator was changed where the hiss was just as frequent but longer. I'm still trying to work out what it's doing when it makes the loud hiss...

I can't remember if the xant has the same but the BX has a rigid return pipe from the pressure regulator that then changes to a rubber, flexable pipe the loop back to feed back into the FDV. I notice that while the hiss occurs this pipe surges! so it has something to do with the pressure coming out of the PRV. I also noticed that it quite often hisses when the steering is stopped moving while the car is in motion such as in a carpark you can hear it with the window open.

The FDV valve splits the flow from the pump 1/4 straight to the PAS and the remaining 3/4 to the regulator/accumulator. When the PRV cuts out the return goes back to the FDV and is made available to the PAS IF the pressure of the PAS is less than the return from the PRV, if it's not, it then returns to the LHM tank from the FDV. I -think- this might be 'hiss phase' but not absolutely certain.

I worked out some aspects of the FDV from the Citroen training manual scans on one of the forums (is it one here somewhere? or maybe it's on FCF)

Anyway, the early sinking Xants are my favourites! I like the odd hissing and I like the old skool suspension sinking!

What sort of things have others said about the noise? I'm curious!
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:32 pm

Financial situation being what it is, I'm really not in a position to run 2 cars.

so it's looking a wee bit like I need to sell one of the two old Citroens I have...

Although Cyril the BX is more practical than my CX, I'm not a Citroen fanatic just because of practicality!! it's pure love - and I love CXs more than BXs... even though I traveled 500 miles to get the Mk 1 BX (I'd do it again in the future too..) one of the two cars has to be chosen and the CX is the one so Cyril might very well be up for grabs..

I've just taken him off the road as the CX has just be reinstated. So the BX is parked up, still taxed and tested in my grandad's drive.
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Ideally, I'd like to keep the BX here and ride out the storm (possible) but I'm not always happy to leave cars unused for ages (the CX did not like being left in this same spot for 4 months and rewarded me with a breakdown for my audacity) although LPG cars seem to run better than petrol in use and after a rest. I also think the BX is a wee bit more resistant to the elements than the CX which if left unused will turn into a husk of corrosion shrouded by a pointless shell of paint - albeit a beautifully formed one.. but still, I don't like leaving the BX long term.

I want to hear your thoughts guys..
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Post by Tim Leech » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:00 am

I often dont use mine for a while, the 16v being unused for 12 months, although it was always garaged, give it a run now and again on a dry day and good few coats of quality polish on the body to help along and it shoudl be ok. Also if you can get a good quality breathable car cover that would help.

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MULLEY
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Post by MULLEY » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:39 pm

No chance that you could convince your grandad to keep it on his drive for the time being? Seems a shame that you've gone to all the trouble in sorting this one out, only to have to sell it, its not worth much anyway so i'd be tempted to keep it.

Who knows, if the govt changes its position on giving £2500 for scrapping any car over 9 years old in exchange for purchasing an eco modern car, these cars will soar in value.

Anybody tempted to start stocking up on some crappy motors to see if it pays off?
2002 C5 2.0 HDI Estate - Remapped - It goes better
2011 Mini Cooper D Clubman - it does over 60mpg
1992 TZD Turbo - SORN - slowly getting there
1991 Gti 16V - Blaze is back on the road since 2008
1990 Gti 8Valve SOLD - looks like it's been scrapped
2002 Mini Cooper S - SOLD - i miss this car
1992 TXD - Scrapped in March 2014

I'm not just a username, i'm also called Matthew.

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:46 pm

Fair enough folks, even the CX survived sitting at this spot for 4 months through the winter so I think it's OK - at least it's not sitting on grass.
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:57 pm

Cyril has been for sale of late as many of you might have seen - he's provisionally sold too but due to some problem DVLA are having in returning the V5 (it's been 3 weeks now!!) I can't -actually- sell him.
But at least I can go and take some photos of him - he's much happier than Aphrodite the CX was parked on my Grandad's drive probably due to the weather being much better now. Apologies for the following self indulgent collection..
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The fabbyness of the Mk1.
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Thu May 21, 2009 12:17 am

Cyril's (non) progress

He's still just sitting there so I went over this week to get my monthly hit of BX fizz. I was going to remove a headlight because the glass had fallen off so I could take it away and re attach it. However I always start him up and give, if not a few laps round the block, at least back and forth on the drive. I noticed that after 4 weeks of sitting unused the suspension had as expected, sunk right down to the stops - at least the rear has - the front is still partly up.
Rear slammed:
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Front still up a bit:
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I expected the front to be held like this by sticky struts friction so gave it a nudge and to my surprise it was still rebounding with pressure! So after a month of no activity there's still pressure in the front suspension! I have never seen this on any Citroën I've had before!

General snappage:
Basking in the sun
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Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Tue May 26, 2009 7:55 pm

New MOT!! woo hoo

moved from my grandad's
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next to CX

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Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Post by Philip Chidlow » Tue May 26, 2009 11:04 pm

\:D/ =D> =D> ^^bx>

Need I say more?!
• 1992 Citroen BX TZD Turbo Hurricane
• 2006 Xsara Picasso 1.6 16v

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Post by mountainmanUK » Tue May 26, 2009 11:31 pm

Pure Cit-Porn!!!! :lol:
=D> =D> =D>

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Tue May 26, 2009 11:43 pm

Pure Cit-Porn!!!! Laughing
Applause Applause Applause
:wink: I know man,
Dancing Applause Applause BX

Need I say more?!
- it just says that a BX that's trying to give you a hard time can be made to pull through!

Cheers guys :P
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Caution: use of body filler alert!

Post by Aerodynamica » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:01 pm

Some people would never use body filler! I can understand this but I can accept it as a temporary repair until I can get new body panels.

So! I decided to have a look at the big rust hole on the front passenger door of Cyril and the little bits of rust on the same side front wing that actually turned out to be 2 little bits of rust and one big hidden hole as a result of the genuine Citroën mud flaps.
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the rust:
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Ground the sh1t out of it:
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Packed it full of the old plaster of paris
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The mud guard off after a rusty old struggle
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Great big hole
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Grind the blot out of the rusty bits up front too
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Got the old random orbital to work on the now set blat in the door.
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And much the same for the front bit of wad
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This of course, took several hours.
and in the 'drying time' i decided to cut the gearstick of the CX with a hacksaw.




Because I'm mental.


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And shortened (please adjust your sets) this IS SHORT for a S1 CX btw.
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Anyway, back to la BX.
Come on- this could be worse:
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So, to make it worse, once it was all as smooth as my ass, I iz has paint on it.
Well, black primer. It now looks really shyte but is now free of flaky rust and holes etc.
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First layer of rattle paint
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So 3 layers of paint later and it looks like this:
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So I really just wanted to make Cyril look worse lol
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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jonathan_dyane
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Re: Caution: use of body filler alert!

Post by jonathan_dyane » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:11 pm

Aerodynamica wrote:Some people would never use body filler! I can understand this but I can accept it as a temporary repair until I can get new body panels.
So is Cyril here to stay :D I have to say I'm rather fond of him!

Nice tidy up job, I'm sure it'll look grand with the top coat on...
"Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them." -Charles Bukowski

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:29 pm

Hi Jono, well it does depend on one or two factors.

I simply MUST find some full time employment now.

And

the interested party(ies) from Leeds have NOT contacted me after the text I recently received. I might need to decline if I secure the car before they get back in touch....

Will keep y'all updated..
Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'

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Aerodynamica
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Post by Aerodynamica » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:09 pm

Hej all, (that's Swedish btw)

So it's looking increasingly like Cyril is staying. not least because the CX is giving me gyp - had to get RAC'd on Saturday after a cooling hose popped..
Hard shoulder heaven:
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It's been having some boiling over moments and the RAC dude advised to watch out for the head gasket.. being a S1 CX and having only 5 columns in the mileometer, it's uncertain just how many times round the clock it is....

Anywayz, cyril has had some problems too - the PAS has been lacking and additionally, the PRV has been suffering from the old 'not cutting out' symptom.

Sometimes it'll just make the familiar dull hisssssss that seems to slowly bring the engine to labour (tho it never actually cuts out)

I decided that having replaced the HP pump some time ago and changing the LHM twice - still bad results..

Next up then was the FDV valve. I've been wanting to attack this device for yonks - it fascinates me as it's one hydraulic device I've never explored...

So, to get it out I realised after reading the sticky in the tech. section that the radiator etc needs to come out first. So out it came.
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The familiar FDV
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The beest out:
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So wirds gemacht:
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Heart bypass surgery:
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Indoors: there's something I really enjoy about revamping a component indoors.. I'm weird I know.
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And me decided it would be even more satisfying if I had the .pdf of the FDv and the operating principle of the steering on the laptop
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- you see! there's more to car maintenance than just car maintenance... er, yea - don't know what I even mean here..

Next: the end caps and the 2 slide valves finally out after an epic 4.5 hour struggle with one of the four that JUST WOULDN'T BUDGE and I managed to slice my thumb etc. once all out I inspected the super finished slide valve bores.
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With the slide valves, filters and metering disks out, you'll know this scene from the sticky
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However, I wanted to have a look at the metering jets as outlined in the Citroën workshop manual. These are very fne disks with a very small hole in the middle. These govern how much of the hydrostatic pressure goes where.
So in addition to the photo in the Sticky about FDVs, the metering disks can be seen removed from the first slide valve:
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A. is the slide valve
b. is the metering disk - very small, that divides (sic) the flow 1/4 to the steering and 3/4 to the pressure reg. valve.
c. is the brass spacer between the disk and it's twin brother - the second disk.. not certain why there's two in series but there are. I note that the disks and spacers are identical to the ones used in height correctors for the damper dash pot.
d. is the second slie valve used to prioritise the PAS pressure/ return flow when steering at PRV cut out. It also contains a single metering disk (not pictured here) that was different to the disks in b. Also there was only one disk.
e. is a single disk fitted in series with the filter and holder of the high pressure return from the PRV, the FDV uses this dupme pressure to feed the PAS when the PRV cuts out, the FDV decides whether this flow vs. the HP pump's flow is too much for the PAS and regulates it accordingly. The second valve also decides when the priority to the PAS is to be changed to 3/4 flow to the PAS and only 1/4 to the PRV (after cut out)
Close up
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And of the filter and disk
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ANYWAY

Here's the bits from a cooler perspective
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-also note that both the nylon filters on my car are completely undamaged. The filter at the top that's in line from the HP pump did however, have a number of black chunks of rubber and some general shite blocking it - all removed.
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Anyway, after some serious cleaning involving carb cleaner, pressurised air and some new LHM, the FDV was reassembled, cleaned, degreased and finally sprayed with clear gloss metal protector.
Slapped the bitch back in the car
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A gleaming car part lol
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Going back together
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Graeme M

CX 2400 Pallas LPG
2CV6 dolly (SORNed)
Mk1 Xantia 1.9TD SX

'c'est hydropneumatique'